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This 100x over. I had a very eye-opening experience as an american living in Mexico for 2 years, while trying to recycle as much as possible. I learned a lot an

This 100x over. I had a very eye-opening experience as an american living in Mexico for 2 years, while trying to recycle as much as possible. I learned a lot and continue to think about recycling in this context, since it applies globally. Once you're out from under the umbrella of "The Great Recycling Con": - Recycling companies in Mexico will not accept any material that they can't make a profit on. Only a few numbers of plastic are recyclable/profitable. - Recycling companies in Mexico enforce sorting and cleanliness before receiving any material. I clean everything, even run it in the dishwasher if there's space. Pizza cardboard is straight out. - Glass is the hardest the recycle. There's a global glut of used glass. This goes against the normal idea that it's the easiest to recycle because it can be simply melted down. On the other hand, some beverage companies wash and reuse returned bottles. Those are the only bottled beverages I buy now. Buy a case, pay a small deposit, then continuously swap it for full bottles. - Aluminum is the easiest to recycle and the most profitable. I've switched to buying as much as possible in cans. Especially switching from drinking beer out of bottles because it "tastes better" to buying it in cans and pouring it in a glass. - Clean cardboard (and paper to a lesser extent) is fairly easy to recycle. - Companies pay you a small amount for material. It's not a lot but it covers the cost of dropping it off. These basic economic rules apply in the United States too but it's masked by the con described in this op-ed, temporary recycling subsidies and "wish-cycling" [0] [0] https://recyclecoach.com/residents/blog/help-put-a-stop-to-wish-cycling/ https://recyclecoach.com/residents/blog/help-put-a-stop-to-w...

mumblemumble 7y ago
> switching from drinking beer out of bottles because it "tastes better" FWIW, that was never true, anyway. It's just that, once upon a time, cheap beer came in cans and expensive beer came in bottles, so it was hard for consumers to make a decent comparison. When I was in beer judging class, we did an interesting blind taste test among various beers that are available in both bottles and cans. The cans consistently won. It didn't take too long to notice the pattern, either: At least for beers with a more delicate flavor, the bottled version tends to have a certain subtle hint of soggy cardboard that's absent in the canned version.
- chrisco255 7y ago
  You can't frost a can of beer but you can frost a glass of beer and it absolutely tastes better and has an effect on enjoyability. But for what its worth, why is it harmful to put glass in the landfill? Glass is made from silica. It's non toxic.
  - mumblemumble 7y ago
    I think the real wastefulness of glass probably comes from its manufacture and use much more than its disposal. It takes a lot of energy to make - compared to aluminum, the melting point is very high and you need a relatively large mass of it to make a container. And its extra weight also means that you'll burn a lot more oil in shipping products in glass containers. A lot of that could be mitigated by finding products that are bottled locally in reusable bottles. I don't know about other countries, but that's become all but illegal in many US jurisdictions. re: frosting, it really depends on how how you like your beer. If it's an American pale lager like Miller or Budweiser, where the defining feature of the style is that it's meant to have as little flavor as possible, yeah, a frosted glass will help with that. As will a bottle, since bottles are perfect for minimizing your nose's exposure to what you're drinking. If it's an ale that's meant to have a lot of complex flavor and aroma, and you like those things, cellar temperature will bring them out more.
    - namibj 7y ago
      It seems most German beer bottles are reused via a deposit system.
    - cellularmitosis 7y ago
      The melting point notion is throwing you off -- manufacturing new aluminum requires way more energy than glass. The reason people will pay you to recycle aluminum is because of the huge differential in (electricity) cost between making new aluminum vs. recycling aluminum. The energy differential between making new steel vs recycling steel is about 2:1. For aluminum, it's 20:1. This is because making aluminum involves first melting bauxite ore, then running a shit-ton of current through it to perform electrolysis.
hajile 7y ago
Fresh water is a rather precious commodity and running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power (even the soaps used are generally not particularly friendly for the environment). A better idea is a 5-gallon bucket of rainwater and an old bottle brush. Recyclables need only have the large dirt removed rather than being germ-free like a dishwasher is designed for.
- nathancahill 7y ago
  I knew I would get called out because I wasn't clear enough. I run the dishwasher about once a week. If there's space in the top for greasy plastic that's going to be recycled I throw it in. The point is, recycling companies just trash everything that isn't clean.
- lotsofpulp 7y ago
  Aside from aluminum, I really doubt it’s worth all the effort to recycle, especially because most people can’t be trusted to sort and clean properly, and most facilities won’t make a profit paying for the labor to do it. Reducing consumption is the only answer, and further down is reusing. But recycling is so inefficient, I assume it has mostly been for political points, and conveniently, we had tons of containers going back empty to China.
- me_me_me 7y ago
  > if there's space I think they meant that they do it then they do dishes and have space for cleaning trash. In that case there is nothing wasteful in it.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  If you're washing your dishes anyway, there's no marginal harm.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  >running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power A dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing under normal circumstances (not an ancient dishwasher, not pre-washing dishes, more than one plate to wash, etc).[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Edit: added citations and removed "IIRC" [1] https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwashers-are-better-than-hand-washing/1101150.pcra https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwasher... [2] https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-hand-washing-your-dishes https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-ha... [3] https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashe... [4]https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-techniques/dishwasher-vs-hand-washing https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-tec... [5] https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-use/ https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-us... [6] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to-save-water-should-you-wash-your-hands-of-hand-washing-dishes https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to... [7] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccounter=1 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccoun... [8] https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/dishwasher_hand_washing https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/d...
anticodon 7y ago
Aren't cans lined with plastic inside? I assume it's almost impossible to recycle the plastic inside the can.
- NullPrefix 7y ago
  AFAIK they melt the cans before reusing, so all the inner plastic is burned.
- rshow 7y ago
  Yes, there's a very minuscule amount of plastic lining the inside of most aluminum and steel cans. It's vaporized or becomes slag when the metal is melted in a furnace.
- pnutjam 7y ago
  I believe that burns off and is easy-ish to deal with in the smelting process. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.
duelingjello 7y ago
When I was a Boy Scout, I probably hauled and schlepped 3 imperial tons of newspaper for recycling before San Jose implemented their first program with those diamond-patterned yellow, olive and green recycling plastic crates (about 48" x 36" x 24" / 1.5m x 1m x 0.75m).
burfog 7y ago
It sure does seem that glass could be put to use. Ignoring food-safe containers and windows, there are still many things that could use it. Consider bricks, both traditional and in the style of the typical concrete block. These could be glass. There are many options for making them: full melt, sintered, or as aggregate cemented with something else. Floor tiles ought to work. The result need not be transparent; other ingredients would stop that. Fiber glass insulation seems like a reasonable use.

mumblemumble 7y ago

> switching from drinking beer out of bottles because it "tastes better" FWIW, that was never true, anyway. It's just that, once upon a time, cheap beer came in cans and expensive beer came in bottles, so it was hard for consumers to make a decent comparison. When I was in beer judging class, we did an interesting blind taste test among various beers that are available in both bottles and cans. The cans consistently won. It didn't take too long to notice the pattern, either: At least for beers with a more delicate flavor, the bottled version tends to have a certain subtle hint of soggy cardboard that's absent in the canned version.

chrisco255 7y ago
You can't frost a can of beer but you can frost a glass of beer and it absolutely tastes better and has an effect on enjoyability. But for what its worth, why is it harmful to put glass in the landfill? Glass is made from silica. It's non toxic.
- mumblemumble 7y ago
  I think the real wastefulness of glass probably comes from its manufacture and use much more than its disposal. It takes a lot of energy to make - compared to aluminum, the melting point is very high and you need a relatively large mass of it to make a container. And its extra weight also means that you'll burn a lot more oil in shipping products in glass containers. A lot of that could be mitigated by finding products that are bottled locally in reusable bottles. I don't know about other countries, but that's become all but illegal in many US jurisdictions. re: frosting, it really depends on how how you like your beer. If it's an American pale lager like Miller or Budweiser, where the defining feature of the style is that it's meant to have as little flavor as possible, yeah, a frosted glass will help with that. As will a bottle, since bottles are perfect for minimizing your nose's exposure to what you're drinking. If it's an ale that's meant to have a lot of complex flavor and aroma, and you like those things, cellar temperature will bring them out more.
  - namibj 7y ago
    It seems most German beer bottles are reused via a deposit system.
  - cellularmitosis 7y ago
    The melting point notion is throwing you off -- manufacturing new aluminum requires way more energy than glass. The reason people will pay you to recycle aluminum is because of the huge differential in (electricity) cost between making new aluminum vs. recycling aluminum. The energy differential between making new steel vs recycling steel is about 2:1. For aluminum, it's 20:1. This is because making aluminum involves first melting bauxite ore, then running a shit-ton of current through it to perform electrolysis.

hajile 7y ago

Fresh water is a rather precious commodity and running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power (even the soaps used are generally not particularly friendly for the environment). A better idea is a 5-gallon bucket of rainwater and an old bottle brush. Recyclables need only have the large dirt removed rather than being germ-free like a dishwasher is designed for.

nathancahill 7y ago
I knew I would get called out because I wasn't clear enough. I run the dishwasher about once a week. If there's space in the top for greasy plastic that's going to be recycled I throw it in. The point is, recycling companies just trash everything that isn't clean.
lotsofpulp 7y ago
Aside from aluminum, I really doubt it’s worth all the effort to recycle, especially because most people can’t be trusted to sort and clean properly, and most facilities won’t make a profit paying for the labor to do it. Reducing consumption is the only answer, and further down is reusing. But recycling is so inefficient, I assume it has mostly been for political points, and conveniently, we had tons of containers going back empty to China.
me_me_me 7y ago
> if there's space I think they meant that they do it then they do dishes and have space for cleaning trash. In that case there is nothing wasteful in it.
Spooky23 7y ago
If you're washing your dishes anyway, there's no marginal harm.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>running a dishwasher just to dispose of stuff uses even more power A dishwasher is more efficient than hand washing under normal circumstances (not an ancient dishwasher, not pre-washing dishes, more than one plate to wash, etc).[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] Edit: added citations and removed "IIRC" [1] https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwashers-are-better-than-hand-washing/1101150.pcra https://www.pcrichard.com/library/blogArticle/why-dishwasher... [2] https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-hand-washing-your-dishes https://www.reviewed.com/dishwashers/features/please-stop-ha... [3] https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashers-vs-hand-washing-which-is-greener.html https://www.treehugger.com/kitchen-design/built-in-dishwashe... [4]https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-techniques/dishwasher-vs-hand-washing https://www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/cleaning/more-tec... [5] https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-use/ https://www.cnet.com/how-to/how-much-water-do-dishwashers-us... [6] https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to-save-water-should-you-wash-your-hands-of-hand-washing-dishes https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/11/24/564055953/to... [7] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccounter=1 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wash-dishes_n_7232216?guccoun... [8] https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/dishwasher_hand_washing https://www.energystar.gov/products/appliances/dishwashers/d...

anticodon 7y ago

Aren't cans lined with plastic inside? I assume it's almost impossible to recycle the plastic inside the can.

NullPrefix 7y ago
AFAIK they melt the cans before reusing, so all the inner plastic is burned.
rshow 7y ago
Yes, there's a very minuscule amount of plastic lining the inside of most aluminum and steel cans. It's vaporized or becomes slag when the metal is melted in a furnace.
pnutjam 7y ago
I believe that burns off and is easy-ish to deal with in the smelting process. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

duelingjello 7y ago

When I was a Boy Scout, I probably hauled and schlepped 3 imperial tons of newspaper for recycling before San Jose implemented their first program with those diamond-patterned yellow, olive and green recycling plastic crates (about 48" x 36" x 24" / 1.5m x 1m x 0.75m).

burfog 7y ago

It sure does seem that glass could be put to use. Ignoring food-safe containers and windows, there are still many things that could use it. Consider bricks, both traditional and in the style of the typical concrete block. These could be glass. There are many options for making them: full melt, sintered, or as aggregate cemented with something else. Floor tiles ought to work. The result need not be transparent; other ingredients would stop that. Fiber glass insulation seems like a reasonable use.