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Article misses out that in all but the smallest/tightest parking lots (which I guess are more common in tighter downtown areas), gas stations typically have add

Article misses out that in all but the smallest/tightest parking lots (which I guess are more common in tighter downtown areas), gas stations typically have additional parking already that could also be converted to charging stations. Article also brings up the specter of extra carbon emissions for extra charging infrastructure, but doesn't provide even a basic analysis. There are certainly some logistical issues that electrical has to work out. But this is straight up a fear piece. Yes, gas is transportable by hand if required, but I bet most North American drivers (or at least urban ones which this piece is targetting) just go with roadside assistance anyways, so the charger will come to them. And finally, with the potential of charging at home/work (which I know can't include everyone... but I think can cover a reasonable percentage of people), you don't NEED to charge up even to 80% all the time. Needing a full charge all the time is a hold over of gas mentality and logistics. The one bit that is reasonable here and noting that our current laws probably need a tune up in recognition of the changing nature of driving.

james_pm 7y ago
Treating charging like we treat fuelling is the problem. The reason we have gas stations is because we have to store and dispense the fuel safely. We don't have a safe, effective system to transport gasoline to all of our homes and offices. Natural gas cars would be one option, with "pumps" at our homes to fill up our cars, but gasoline is always going to be in underground tanks at a filling station. Electricity is easily and safely delivered to our homes and offices and indeed, most EV owners probably do the majority of their charging at their own homes. The issue of EV charging is actually tied to the range of the cars. If you get the range to where a car can be driven longer than the driver can safely drive (say 16-18 hours) then the time spent charging is basically moot...you can charge while the driver sleeps. Hotels become a logical spot for chargers.
- brudgers 7y ago
  most EV owners probably do the majority of their charging at their own homes Owning a house is pretty much a prerequisite of electric cars for personal use in the US. 100 million Americans live in rental housing. https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-heres-what-the-data-says/566933/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-he...
  - bryanlarsen 7y ago
    In cold areas, every rental unit's parking spot comes with a power outlet so that you can plug in your car's block heater. So it's possible.
    - ashtonbaker 7y ago
      I've lived in all types of rental housing across Michigan, and have never seen this. I don't think it covers even a small fraction of that 100 million.
      - bryanlarsen 7y ago
        I'm talking about places where -40 is common. And I'm not saying that many of the 100 million have block heater plugs, I'm saying that they could -- the cold places are a proof of viability.
      - Robotbeat 7y ago
        Michigan doesn't get that cold that often (maybe the UP does). Think Minnesota or Finland. And the point isn't that it already covers 100 million, just that if there's a need (like there is for warming cold engine blocks in winter), it's neither particularly complicated nor expensive to provide this kind of overnight trickle charging.
      - exotree 7y ago
        I have to second this. I have lived in MN and MI for most of my life and plugs outside are not at all common.
    - sib 7y ago
      My understanding is that the typical block heater might draw about 750-800 watts (call it 7 amps @ 120 volts in the US), which would charge one of the most efficient EVs out there (the Tesla Model 3) at about 3 miles of range per hour. So, if you parked your car for the whole night, you'd add about 30-35 miles of range. Other EVs are even less efficient. I think it's a different sort of effort to wire every parking spot with, say, a 40 amp, 240 volt circuit to enable moderately fast charging.

james_pm 7y ago

Treating charging like we treat fuelling is the problem. The reason we have gas stations is because we have to store and dispense the fuel safely. We don't have a safe, effective system to transport gasoline to all of our homes and offices. Natural gas cars would be one option, with "pumps" at our homes to fill up our cars, but gasoline is always going to be in underground tanks at a filling station. Electricity is easily and safely delivered to our homes and offices and indeed, most EV owners probably do the majority of their charging at their own homes. The issue of EV charging is actually tied to the range of the cars. If you get the range to where a car can be driven longer than the driver can safely drive (say 16-18 hours) then the time spent charging is basically moot...you can charge while the driver sleeps. Hotels become a logical spot for chargers.

brudgers 7y ago
most EV owners probably do the majority of their charging at their own homes Owning a house is pretty much a prerequisite of electric cars for personal use in the US. 100 million Americans live in rental housing. https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-heres-what-the-data-says/566933/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2018/08/who-rents-their-home-he...
- bryanlarsen 7y ago
  In cold areas, every rental unit's parking spot comes with a power outlet so that you can plug in your car's block heater. So it's possible.
  - ashtonbaker 7y ago
    I've lived in all types of rental housing across Michigan, and have never seen this. I don't think it covers even a small fraction of that 100 million.
    - bryanlarsen 7y ago
      I'm talking about places where -40 is common. And I'm not saying that many of the 100 million have block heater plugs, I'm saying that they could -- the cold places are a proof of viability.
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      Michigan doesn't get that cold that often (maybe the UP does). Think Minnesota or Finland. And the point isn't that it already covers 100 million, just that if there's a need (like there is for warming cold engine blocks in winter), it's neither particularly complicated nor expensive to provide this kind of overnight trickle charging.
    - exotree 7y ago
      I have to second this. I have lived in MN and MI for most of my life and plugs outside are not at all common.
  - sib 7y ago
    My understanding is that the typical block heater might draw about 750-800 watts (call it 7 amps @ 120 volts in the US), which would charge one of the most efficient EVs out there (the Tesla Model 3) at about 3 miles of range per hour. So, if you parked your car for the whole night, you'd add about 30-35 miles of range. Other EVs are even less efficient. I think it's a different sort of effort to wire every parking spot with, say, a 40 amp, 240 volt circuit to enable moderately fast charging.