6 ms·

When you say Western, you mean American. Almost nowhere in Europe is buying on credit the norm, but debit cards or credit cards that debit your bank account dir

by brnt 7y ago

When you say Western, you mean American. Almost nowhere in Europe is buying on credit the norm, but debit cards or credit cards that debit your bank account directly.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
gexla 7y ago
They're missing out on a useful feature of credit cards. If you get hit with a fraudulent transaction, you can dispute the charge to get it reversed. I have never tried this with a debit card, but the credit card companies make this much easier than dealing with your bank. Also, if you pay the balance in full every month, you don't get charged interest. If you're disciplined, then you'll use credit cards for every cashless purchase.
- systemtest 7y ago
  Depends on your definition of fraudulent. If money is stolen out of your account or your card is cloned then you will get your money back with a debit card. If the restaurant overcharges you or you are not happy with your webshop purchase then the bank will not help you out. It might be an added benefit but in the end you do pay a couple percent on each purchase for that insurance.
  - Vinnl 7y ago
    > If the restaurant overcharges you or you are not happy with your webshop purchase then the bank will not help you out. I don't know what it's like in other European countries, but I have to enter my PIN code before a transaction can take place (except for very small transactions). So since overcharging or webshops charging my account cannot really happen without my explicit permission, I don't really see how that could happen?
  - boring_twenties 7y ago
    You pay the couple of percent whether you use the credit card or not, since there is usually no discount for cash or debit. On the other hand, a credit card will give you back 1-2% of that in the form of cash back or other rewards. So in effect you are paying to not use a credit card.
- brnt 7y ago
  In Europe, banks handle these things for you, rather than an intermediary CC provider (although that is possible too). It's a misunderstanding if you thought there is no recourse whatsoever on European debit cards.
  - gexla 7y ago
    There is always recourse, it's just my understanding that it's easier with CC companies. And when you get hit with a charge, it's not immediately hitting your bank account. You can get hit with the charge, dispute it and get it reversed without ever having to pay out of your own pocket.
    - Doxin 7y ago
      I think the main difference here is that it's way easier to get a CC charge than a debit charge. Anyone who happens to stumble upon your credit card information can try using it and cause a charge. If you want to cause debit charges you need to know a PIN number and physically have the card (since, afaik, chip&pin hasn't been cracked yet) or you need access to a second factor such as a TAN-code list. Either system is a valid solution to the problem of fraudulent charges, both have their advantages and disadvantages.
      - gexla 7y ago
        I actually don't have a credit card. I have a debit card and I use it for everything I can. I NEVER have to enter a PIN except at the ATM. Web based transactions wouldn't know if I physically had the card. The PIN requirement for usage must be a European thing.
        Doxin 7y ago
        > The PIN requirement for usage must be a European thing. It is. Over here a credit and a debit card work in significantly different ways. In the USA (and probably other countries too) a debit card is just a credit card that's more likely to get declined and gets billed slightly differently. Over here they are entirely different transaction systems as far as I can tell.
- chrischen 7y ago
  That benefit isn’t free. It’s padded onto the product price and subsidized by non CC users.
- anoncake 7y ago
  None of these are intrinsic properties of credit cards so it's a bit optimistic to assume they apply in all countries.
systemtest 7y ago
What we call a credit card in Europe is usually a charge card: You have to pay back at the end of the month. Not paying will result in immediate closure of your account and sending the bill to collections. There is no option to transfer your debt to the next month.
- kalleboo 7y ago
  Where in Europe is that? Not in Sweden. Not in the UK.
  - systemtest 7y ago
    The Netherlands. Most if not all credit cards do not allow you to carry a balance. It must be paid at the end of the month in full.
kalleboo 7y ago
The statistics that I found on a quick google show pretty small differences in debit/credit split between the US and EU. EU just has more cash. (these numbers are self-reported through a survey though so may be unreliable) US Cash/Debit/Credit: 30%/35%/30% EU Cash/Debit/Credit: 38%/30%/26%
- ojilles 7y ago
  These are percentages of what, exactly? (If it's 'type of payment method' owned: possible. But if it's volume of currency exchanging hands then it //really// mismatches with my experiences in US vs Northern EU)
  - kalleboo 7y ago
    The chart said percentage of transactions
  - LeonidasXIV 7y ago
    That said, northern EU is the place where people don't remember exactly how cash looks like since everything is paid either with card or using an app. But northern EU is population-wise a rather small market.
    - ojilles 7y ago
      Exactly, but most of those I would think of as "debit", albeit electronically. (RFID bank card, apple pay -- all do not route to a line of credit in Europe but to debit/checking accounts).
- brnt 7y ago
  European CCs provided by banks are often direct debit. On top of that, having a CC as backup for travel is common too. Transaction volume will show a very different distribution.

by brnt 7y ago

When you say Western, you mean American. Almost nowhere in Europe is buying on credit the norm, but debit cards or credit cards that debit your bank account directly.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

gexla 7y ago

They're missing out on a useful feature of credit cards. If you get hit with a fraudulent transaction, you can dispute the charge to get it reversed. I have never tried this with a debit card, but the credit card companies make this much easier than dealing with your bank. Also, if you pay the balance in full every month, you don't get charged interest. If you're disciplined, then you'll use credit cards for every cashless purchase.

systemtest 7y ago
Depends on your definition of fraudulent. If money is stolen out of your account or your card is cloned then you will get your money back with a debit card. If the restaurant overcharges you or you are not happy with your webshop purchase then the bank will not help you out. It might be an added benefit but in the end you do pay a couple percent on each purchase for that insurance.
- Vinnl 7y ago
  > If the restaurant overcharges you or you are not happy with your webshop purchase then the bank will not help you out. I don't know what it's like in other European countries, but I have to enter my PIN code before a transaction can take place (except for very small transactions). So since overcharging or webshops charging my account cannot really happen without my explicit permission, I don't really see how that could happen?
- boring_twenties 7y ago
  You pay the couple of percent whether you use the credit card or not, since there is usually no discount for cash or debit. On the other hand, a credit card will give you back 1-2% of that in the form of cash back or other rewards. So in effect you are paying to not use a credit card.
brnt 7y ago
In Europe, banks handle these things for you, rather than an intermediary CC provider (although that is possible too). It's a misunderstanding if you thought there is no recourse whatsoever on European debit cards.
- gexla 7y ago
  There is always recourse, it's just my understanding that it's easier with CC companies. And when you get hit with a charge, it's not immediately hitting your bank account. You can get hit with the charge, dispute it and get it reversed without ever having to pay out of your own pocket.
  - Doxin 7y ago
    I think the main difference here is that it's way easier to get a CC charge than a debit charge. Anyone who happens to stumble upon your credit card information can try using it and cause a charge. If you want to cause debit charges you need to know a PIN number and physically have the card (since, afaik, chip&pin hasn't been cracked yet) or you need access to a second factor such as a TAN-code list. Either system is a valid solution to the problem of fraudulent charges, both have their advantages and disadvantages.
    - gexla 7y ago
      I actually don't have a credit card. I have a debit card and I use it for everything I can. I NEVER have to enter a PIN except at the ATM. Web based transactions wouldn't know if I physically had the card. The PIN requirement for usage must be a European thing.
      - Doxin 7y ago
        > The PIN requirement for usage must be a European thing. It is. Over here a credit and a debit card work in significantly different ways. In the USA (and probably other countries too) a debit card is just a credit card that's more likely to get declined and gets billed slightly differently. Over here they are entirely different transaction systems as far as I can tell.
chrischen 7y ago
That benefit isn’t free. It’s padded onto the product price and subsidized by non CC users.
anoncake 7y ago
None of these are intrinsic properties of credit cards so it's a bit optimistic to assume they apply in all countries.

systemtest 7y ago

What we call a credit card in Europe is usually a charge card: You have to pay back at the end of the month. Not paying will result in immediate closure of your account and sending the bill to collections. There is no option to transfer your debt to the next month.

kalleboo 7y ago
Where in Europe is that? Not in Sweden. Not in the UK.
- systemtest 7y ago
  The Netherlands. Most if not all credit cards do not allow you to carry a balance. It must be paid at the end of the month in full.

kalleboo 7y ago

The statistics that I found on a quick google show pretty small differences in debit/credit split between the US and EU. EU just has more cash. (these numbers are self-reported through a survey though so may be unreliable) US Cash/Debit/Credit: 30%/35%/30% EU Cash/Debit/Credit: 38%/30%/26%

ojilles 7y ago
These are percentages of what, exactly? (If it's 'type of payment method' owned: possible. But if it's volume of currency exchanging hands then it //really// mismatches with my experiences in US vs Northern EU)
- kalleboo 7y ago
  The chart said percentage of transactions
- LeonidasXIV 7y ago
  That said, northern EU is the place where people don't remember exactly how cash looks like since everything is paid either with card or using an app. But northern EU is population-wise a rather small market.
  - ojilles 7y ago
    Exactly, but most of those I would think of as "debit", albeit electronically. (RFID bank card, apple pay -- all do not route to a line of credit in Europe but to debit/checking accounts).
brnt 7y ago
European CCs provided by banks are often direct debit. On top of that, having a CC as backup for travel is common too. Transaction volume will show a very different distribution.