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> wanting to preserve their current lifestyles You know the GDP per capita in Vanuato and Tuvalu is about $3000, or roughly one tenth of the poorest US state,

> wanting to preserve their current lifestyles You know the GDP per capita in Vanuato and Tuvalu is about $3000, or roughly one tenth of the poorest US state, Mississippi? Source: https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&idim=country:VUT:FJI:TUV&hl=en&dl=en#!ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ny_gdp_pcap_cd&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=region&idim=country:VUT:TUV&ifdim=region&hl=en_US&dl=en&ind=false https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&...

siquick 7y ago
What does the GDP matter?
- roenxi 7y ago
  Without putting too fine a point on it; if their way of life was being preserved in a large first-world community it might be a reason for government get involved or declaring a national emergency or somesuch. It isn't a very impressive standard. People can go and live in a very basic way if they like; that is on them. There are communities that do it here and there. It just doesn't look like the Tuvaluvians have made that choice, and we know the vast majority of people prefer having luxury and comfort. Tuvaluvians are probably a lot like everyone else in the world in that they want to improve their living standard by an order of magnitude rather than keep on living with basically nothing on some island somewhere. It is easy to romanticise subsistence lifestyles but very few people voluntarily choose them when they see an alternative. The consensus position is wealth and infrastructure is the right choice. It is reasonable to assume they also want this and that their actions are generally aligned to improving their position rather than holding steady.
  - jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
    There is no holding steady. Pouring more money on the situation in the hopes of maintaining the status quo will just get lots of people killed... more than the normal amount of people who usually get killed. Glamour is opium for the masses, it's a high-level mind-control spell cast on oppressed people to confuse and persuade them. Most victims of glamour will never actually have access to the fantastical things that they've witnessed and as they get wise to that, they start to break stuff. Remember the Oktober Revolution komrade? If Tuvalu really leans into that strategy, they'll be setting the course for their own destruction and also depriving the continental world of a good role model for climate hazard mitigation; any effective strategies from the pacific will eventually be exported to continental coasts and interiors as their situations degrade at a slower rate.
qxnqd 7y ago
I'd like to see a comparison of what you can get with $3000 in Tuvalu vs. what you can get with $30000 in Mississippi.
- namirez 7y ago
  Then you need to look at the GDP per capita (PPP). The numbers are not that different.
- disordinary 7y ago
  Prices for most things would be (much, much) more expensive in Tuvalu than Mississippi, pretty much everything has to be imported at very small scale and high cost and if it's remotely affordable it's because of aid from countries like New Zealand and Australia subsidising it.

siquick 7y ago

What does the GDP matter?

roenxi 7y ago
Without putting too fine a point on it; if their way of life was being preserved in a large first-world community it might be a reason for government get involved or declaring a national emergency or somesuch. It isn't a very impressive standard. People can go and live in a very basic way if they like; that is on them. There are communities that do it here and there. It just doesn't look like the Tuvaluvians have made that choice, and we know the vast majority of people prefer having luxury and comfort. Tuvaluvians are probably a lot like everyone else in the world in that they want to improve their living standard by an order of magnitude rather than keep on living with basically nothing on some island somewhere. It is easy to romanticise subsistence lifestyles but very few people voluntarily choose them when they see an alternative. The consensus position is wealth and infrastructure is the right choice. It is reasonable to assume they also want this and that their actions are generally aligned to improving their position rather than holding steady.
- jacobwilliamroy 7y ago
  There is no holding steady. Pouring more money on the situation in the hopes of maintaining the status quo will just get lots of people killed... more than the normal amount of people who usually get killed. Glamour is opium for the masses, it's a high-level mind-control spell cast on oppressed people to confuse and persuade them. Most victims of glamour will never actually have access to the fantastical things that they've witnessed and as they get wise to that, they start to break stuff. Remember the Oktober Revolution komrade? If Tuvalu really leans into that strategy, they'll be setting the course for their own destruction and also depriving the continental world of a good role model for climate hazard mitigation; any effective strategies from the pacific will eventually be exported to continental coasts and interiors as their situations degrade at a slower rate.

qxnqd 7y ago

I'd like to see a comparison of what you can get with $3000 in Tuvalu vs. what you can get with $30000 in Mississippi.

namirez 7y ago
Then you need to look at the GDP per capita (PPP). The numbers are not that different.
disordinary 7y ago
Prices for most things would be (much, much) more expensive in Tuvalu than Mississippi, pretty much everything has to be imported at very small scale and high cost and if it's remotely affordable it's because of aid from countries like New Zealand and Australia subsidising it.