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Answer in the article: > [...] copper and its alloys exhibit these impressive properties and the processes involved. The process involves the release of coppe

Answer in the article: > [...] copper and its alloys exhibit these impressive properties and the processes involved. The process involves the release of copper ions (electrically charged particles) when microbes, transferred by touching, sneezing or vomiting, land on the copper surface. The ions prevent cell respiration, punch holes in the bacterial cell membrane or disrupt the viral coat, and destroy the DNA and RNA inside. > This latter property is important as it means that no mutation can occur – preventing the microbe from developing resistance to copper.

zer00eyz 7y ago
Wait, that doesn't make sense to me. I always understood that the mutation happened at copy time/mitosis.
- function_seven 7y ago
  Yeah, I think that article has a misunderstanding of how evolution works. Copper may well be impossible to develop a resistance against, but it’s not due to the mechanism above. All anti-microbials also destroy their enemy cells, but for some, it’s possible for a random mutation in the population to provide resistance to the antiseptic. So the question is: is copper like alcohol and fire? Or is it like antibiotics and other more “nuanced” antiseptics?
  - amluto 7y ago
    Even alcohol resistance is common in some species: people regularly breed brewer’s yeast to tolerate high alcohol concentrations so that we can brew high-ABV beer. Fortunately there seem to be few or no pathogens that can tolerate much alcohol. Similarly, if plants can evolve to tolerate extreme salt concentrations, it should be possible for bacteria to evolve copper resistance.
    - galangalalgol 7y ago
      Yeast can handle mid 25% ish at th high end. There are pathogens that 60% whiskey won't kill. The sanitization beer or wine accomplishes is really more of a water test. If the sugar containing solution looks and smells like beer when you open the cask nothing bad was in there.
- thaumasiotes 7y ago
  Mutations can happen at any time. They spread through the population by being copied when their host reproduces, but they don't have to happen then.
robocat 7y ago
> This latter property is important as it means that no mutation can occur I am extremely sceptical of that statement. Edit: google for <mutation copper resistance> shows papers that might be relevant arguments that support my skepticism. In context we are talking about microbes that are developing unbelievable resistance to high concentrations of alcohol: “The alcohols essentially shred the microbes' outer membranes, causing molecular mayhem and the germs’ innards to leak out. In high concentrations, the alcohols are quickly fatal.”
- nikanj 7y ago
  It’s analogous to evolving a resistance to a flame thrower. It is possible, but takes much more than just a subtle change to the cell wall.

zer00eyz 7y ago

Wait, that doesn't make sense to me. I always understood that the mutation happened at copy time/mitosis.

function_seven 7y ago
Yeah, I think that article has a misunderstanding of how evolution works. Copper may well be impossible to develop a resistance against, but it’s not due to the mechanism above. All anti-microbials also destroy their enemy cells, but for some, it’s possible for a random mutation in the population to provide resistance to the antiseptic. So the question is: is copper like alcohol and fire? Or is it like antibiotics and other more “nuanced” antiseptics?
- amluto 7y ago
  Even alcohol resistance is common in some species: people regularly breed brewer’s yeast to tolerate high alcohol concentrations so that we can brew high-ABV beer. Fortunately there seem to be few or no pathogens that can tolerate much alcohol. Similarly, if plants can evolve to tolerate extreme salt concentrations, it should be possible for bacteria to evolve copper resistance.
  - galangalalgol 7y ago
    Yeast can handle mid 25% ish at th high end. There are pathogens that 60% whiskey won't kill. The sanitization beer or wine accomplishes is really more of a water test. If the sugar containing solution looks and smells like beer when you open the cask nothing bad was in there.
thaumasiotes 7y ago
Mutations can happen at any time. They spread through the population by being copied when their host reproduces, but they don't have to happen then.

robocat 7y ago

> This latter property is important as it means that no mutation can occur I am extremely sceptical of that statement. Edit: google for <mutation copper resistance> shows papers that might be relevant arguments that support my skepticism. In context we are talking about microbes that are developing unbelievable resistance to high concentrations of alcohol: “The alcohols essentially shred the microbes' outer membranes, causing molecular mayhem and the germs’ innards to leak out. In high concentrations, the alcohols are quickly fatal.”

nikanj 7y ago
It’s analogous to evolving a resistance to a flame thrower. It is possible, but takes much more than just a subtle change to the cell wall.