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Especially with this expanded commentary, you do show some advantages of C++ over C, but you have only addressed the advice for how to proceed once you’ve chose

by kd5bjo 7y ago

Especially with this expanded commentary, you do show some advantages of C++ over C, but you have only addressed the advice for how to proceed once you’ve chosen C and not the author’s reasons for preferring C to C++ (or any other language): — Every language out there has a way to call into C — If your code is slower than C, someone will rewrite it in C. — If your library is written in C it means it can be used on any OS, console or mobile device and even on the web. — Not everyone wants to use C++ (some prefer C). — It is easier in general for a C++ user to use a C library than it is for a C user to use a C++ library. — C++ is not as easy to write wrappers for in other languages. — Unless you limit which C++ features you use (to the point where you are pretty much left with C) a lot of people won’t be able to use your library. PS. If your original comment had been phrased the way you put it here I might have made the same comment, but I would not have downvoted it. Here, you’re at least providing some supporting evidence for your assertions which makes it a much more valuable contribution to the conversation.

Const-me 7y ago
> If your code is slower than C, someone will rewrite it in C. When used correctly, C++ is not slower than C. Sometimes faster, a classic example is C qsort versus std::sort. > If your library is written in C it means it can be used on any OS, console or mobile device and even on the web. C++ is good in that regard. I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. The rest of them (Windows, Linux including embedded, game consoles, android) support C++ just fine. > Not everyone wants to use C++ (some prefer C). Most people are OK with C++, especially in the context of game development. > to the point where you are pretty much left with C No, not with C. Namespaces and scoped enums are awesome. Another thing, inside the implementation of the library, you can use whatever C++ language features you please, even the features that would be inappropriate when exposed at the API surface of the library. For example, MS implemented parts of their C runtime library with C++ classes, RAII, lambdas and templates, eliminating duplicated code for char/wchar_t routines. Obviously, you don’t need C++ to consume that library, just C is enough, but it’s implemented in modern C++. On my system, that source is in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\Source\10.0.18362.0\ucrt\stdio\output.cpp".
- comex 7y ago
  > I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. Apple’s compiler supports overlaying Objective-C features on top of C++ instead of C; it’s called Objective-C++.
  - Const-me 7y ago
    I once forked a C library, porting some parts to C++ in the process: https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ I’ve retained original C API, only used C++ in the implementation. Then I’ve got an e-mail from a developer who asked a few things how to back port my changes to C. I answered their questions, but I was curious why. They replied it’s because Objective C and iOS. Personally, I haven’t been developing for iOS for several years, but I don’t think people would do such things for lulz.
    - oriolid 7y ago
      That developer must be misinformed. I have been developing a native component that needs to interface with C++ APIs from the app and Objective C APIs from iOS. The only thing you need to remember is to not mix exceptions from C++ and Objective C. The object models are also incompatible, but the compiler prevents you from mixing them.
      - comex 7y ago
        Also, if C++ is only used in the library implementation... you wouldn't even need Objective-C++ unless you needed to add Objective-C API calls to the library's own source files. Otherwise, you could just compile the library's source files as regular C++, and link them together with your Objective-C code. This works exactly the same way as combining C and C++, and Xcode (the IDE) has no issue with it. So it seems very likely that the developer was misinformed.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Except that only old timers, have the Objective-C++ documentation available, because Apple has removed it from their web site.
orbifold 7y ago
It actually extremely easy to write C++ wrappers for other languages. Examples I‘m familiar with are pybind11 (similar to boost python) and the node C++ API. That other languages don’t have similarly convenient libraries is entirely their own fault.

by kd5bjo 7y ago

Const-me 7y ago

> If your code is slower than C, someone will rewrite it in C. When used correctly, C++ is not slower than C. Sometimes faster, a classic example is C qsort versus std::sort. > If your library is written in C it means it can be used on any OS, console or mobile device and even on the web. C++ is good in that regard. I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. The rest of them (Windows, Linux including embedded, game consoles, android) support C++ just fine. > Not everyone wants to use C++ (some prefer C). Most people are OK with C++, especially in the context of game development. > to the point where you are pretty much left with C No, not with C. Namespaces and scoped enums are awesome. Another thing, inside the implementation of the library, you can use whatever C++ language features you please, even the features that would be inappropriate when exposed at the API surface of the library. For example, MS implemented parts of their C runtime library with C++ classes, RAII, lambdas and templates, eliminating duplicated code for char/wchar_t routines. Obviously, you don’t need C++ to consume that library, just C is enough, but it’s implemented in modern C++. On my system, that source is in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\Source\10.0.18362.0\ucrt\stdio\output.cpp".

comex 7y ago
> I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. Apple’s compiler supports overlaying Objective-C features on top of C++ instead of C; it’s called Objective-C++.
- Const-me 7y ago
  I once forked a C library, porting some parts to C++ in the process: https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ I’ve retained original C API, only used C++ in the implementation. Then I’ve got an e-mail from a developer who asked a few things how to back port my changes to C. I answered their questions, but I was curious why. They replied it’s because Objective C and iOS. Personally, I haven’t been developing for iOS for several years, but I don’t think people would do such things for lulz.
  - oriolid 7y ago
    That developer must be misinformed. I have been developing a native component that needs to interface with C++ APIs from the app and Objective C APIs from iOS. The only thing you need to remember is to not mix exceptions from C++ and Objective C. The object models are also incompatible, but the compiler prevents you from mixing them.
    - comex 7y ago
      Also, if C++ is only used in the library implementation... you wouldn't even need Objective-C++ unless you needed to add Objective-C API calls to the library's own source files. Otherwise, you could just compile the library's source files as regular C++, and link them together with your Objective-C code. This works exactly the same way as combining C and C++, and Xcode (the IDE) has no issue with it. So it seems very likely that the developer was misinformed.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Except that only old timers, have the Objective-C++ documentation available, because Apple has removed it from their web site.

orbifold 7y ago

It actually extremely easy to write C++ wrappers for other languages. Examples I‘m familiar with are pybind11 (similar to boost python) and the node C++ API. That other languages don’t have similarly convenient libraries is entirely their own fault.