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> but nobody has yet stated why they hold hat opinion. I did, in my first comment. C++ namespaces lead to much more readable code, compared to these prefixed

> but nobody has yet stated why they hold hat opinion. I did, in my first comment. C++ namespaces lead to much more readable code, compared to these prefixed names. C++/11 scoped enums eliminate a class of bugs: when you have many different constants on the API surface, multiple functions accepting them, and erroneously use the constant of a wrong function. Example: enum Lod { Low, High }; enum SomethingElse { Other }; void setLoD( enum Lod v ); void bug() { setLoD( Other ); }

kd5bjo 7y ago
Especially with this expanded commentary, you do show some advantages of C++ over C, but you have only addressed the advice for how to proceed once you’ve chosen C and not the author’s reasons for preferring C to C++ (or any other language): — Every language out there has a way to call into C — If your code is slower than C, someone will rewrite it in C. — If your library is written in C it means it can be used on any OS, console or mobile device and even on the web. — Not everyone wants to use C++ (some prefer C). — It is easier in general for a C++ user to use a C library than it is for a C user to use a C++ library. — C++ is not as easy to write wrappers for in other languages. — Unless you limit which C++ features you use (to the point where you are pretty much left with C) a lot of people won’t be able to use your library. PS. If your original comment had been phrased the way you put it here I might have made the same comment, but I would not have downvoted it. Here, you’re at least providing some supporting evidence for your assertions which makes it a much more valuable contribution to the conversation.
- Const-me 7y ago
  > If your code is slower than C, someone will rewrite it in C. When used correctly, C++ is not slower than C. Sometimes faster, a classic example is C qsort versus std::sort. > If your library is written in C it means it can be used on any OS, console or mobile device and even on the web. C++ is good in that regard. I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. The rest of them (Windows, Linux including embedded, game consoles, android) support C++ just fine. > Not everyone wants to use C++ (some prefer C). Most people are OK with C++, especially in the context of game development. > to the point where you are pretty much left with C No, not with C. Namespaces and scoped enums are awesome. Another thing, inside the implementation of the library, you can use whatever C++ language features you please, even the features that would be inappropriate when exposed at the API surface of the library. For example, MS implemented parts of their C runtime library with C++ classes, RAII, lambdas and templates, eliminating duplicated code for char/wchar_t routines. Obviously, you don’t need C++ to consume that library, just C is enough, but it’s implemented in modern C++. On my system, that source is in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\Source\10.0.18362.0\ucrt\stdio\output.cpp".
  - comex 7y ago
    > I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. Apple’s compiler supports overlaying Objective-C features on top of C++ instead of C; it’s called Objective-C++.
    - Const-me 7y ago
      I once forked a C library, porting some parts to C++ in the process: https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ I’ve retained original C API, only used C++ in the implementation. Then I’ve got an e-mail from a developer who asked a few things how to back port my changes to C. I answered their questions, but I was curious why. They replied it’s because Objective C and iOS. Personally, I haven’t been developing for iOS for several years, but I don’t think people would do such things for lulz.
      - oriolid 7y ago
        That developer must be misinformed. I have been developing a native component that needs to interface with C++ APIs from the app and Objective C APIs from iOS. The only thing you need to remember is to not mix exceptions from C++ and Objective C. The object models are also incompatible, but the compiler prevents you from mixing them.
        comex 7y ago
        Also, if C++ is only used in the library implementation... you wouldn't even need Objective-C++ unless you needed to add Objective-C API calls to the library's own source files. Otherwise, you could just compile the library's source files as regular C++, and link them together with your Objective-C code. This works exactly the same way as combining C and C++, and Xcode (the IDE) has no issue with it. So it seems very likely that the developer was misinformed.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Except that only old timers, have the Objective-C++ documentation available, because Apple has removed it from their web site.
- orbifold 7y ago
  It actually extremely easy to write C++ wrappers for other languages. Examples I‘m familiar with are pybind11 (similar to boost python) and the node C++ API. That other languages don’t have similarly convenient libraries is entirely their own fault.

kd5bjo 7y ago

Especially with this expanded commentary, you do show some advantages of C++ over C, but you have only addressed the advice for how to proceed once you’ve chosen C and not the author’s reasons for preferring C to C++ (or any other language): — Every language out there has a way to call into C — If your code is slower than C, someone will rewrite it in C. — If your library is written in C it means it can be used on any OS, console or mobile device and even on the web. — Not everyone wants to use C++ (some prefer C). — It is easier in general for a C++ user to use a C library than it is for a C user to use a C++ library. — C++ is not as easy to write wrappers for in other languages. — Unless you limit which C++ features you use (to the point where you are pretty much left with C) a lot of people won’t be able to use your library. PS. If your original comment had been phrased the way you put it here I might have made the same comment, but I would not have downvoted it. Here, you’re at least providing some supporting evidence for your assertions which makes it a much more valuable contribution to the conversation.

Const-me 7y ago
> If your code is slower than C, someone will rewrite it in C. When used correctly, C++ is not slower than C. Sometimes faster, a classic example is C qsort versus std::sort. > If your library is written in C it means it can be used on any OS, console or mobile device and even on the web. C++ is good in that regard. I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. The rest of them (Windows, Linux including embedded, game consoles, android) support C++ just fine. > Not everyone wants to use C++ (some prefer C). Most people are OK with C++, especially in the context of game development. > to the point where you are pretty much left with C No, not with C. Namespaces and scoped enums are awesome. Another thing, inside the implementation of the library, you can use whatever C++ language features you please, even the features that would be inappropriate when exposed at the API surface of the library. For example, MS implemented parts of their C runtime library with C++ classes, RAII, lambdas and templates, eliminating duplicated code for char/wchar_t routines. Obviously, you don’t need C++ to consume that library, just C is enough, but it’s implemented in modern C++. On my system, that source is in "C:\Program Files (x86)\Windows Kits\10\Source\10.0.18362.0\ucrt\stdio\output.cpp".
- comex 7y ago
  > I know only 1 mainstream platform where C++ adds significant friction compared to C, that’s iOS, because their objective C is a superset of C. Apple’s compiler supports overlaying Objective-C features on top of C++ instead of C; it’s called Objective-C++.
  - Const-me 7y ago
    I once forked a C library, porting some parts to C++ in the process: https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ https://github.com/Const-me/nanovg/ I’ve retained original C API, only used C++ in the implementation. Then I’ve got an e-mail from a developer who asked a few things how to back port my changes to C. I answered their questions, but I was curious why. They replied it’s because Objective C and iOS. Personally, I haven’t been developing for iOS for several years, but I don’t think people would do such things for lulz.
    - oriolid 7y ago
      That developer must be misinformed. I have been developing a native component that needs to interface with C++ APIs from the app and Objective C APIs from iOS. The only thing you need to remember is to not mix exceptions from C++ and Objective C. The object models are also incompatible, but the compiler prevents you from mixing them.
      - comex 7y ago
        Also, if C++ is only used in the library implementation... you wouldn't even need Objective-C++ unless you needed to add Objective-C API calls to the library's own source files. Otherwise, you could just compile the library's source files as regular C++, and link them together with your Objective-C code. This works exactly the same way as combining C and C++, and Xcode (the IDE) has no issue with it. So it seems very likely that the developer was misinformed.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Except that only old timers, have the Objective-C++ documentation available, because Apple has removed it from their web site.
orbifold 7y ago
It actually extremely easy to write C++ wrappers for other languages. Examples I‘m familiar with are pybind11 (similar to boost python) and the node C++ API. That other languages don’t have similarly convenient libraries is entirely their own fault.