4 ms·

> The main story that I am pushing in the book is called signaling I saw this idea a lot in other various threads. As the average HN poster is probably well ed

> The main story that I am pushing in the book is called signaling I saw this idea a lot in other various threads. As the average HN poster is probably well educated, I wonder if it’s a biais coming from software engineering where most of the skill set is learnt by experience. Anyway, I have a long list of university degree, and I can tell there are indeed differences with autodidacts that learnt the same general fields. The fundamental difference is that university forces one to learn the unfunny parts. For computer science it means for example functional programming, database normal forms, language theory, anything with mathematics inside, etc. Of course, university classes alone are not enough and much like an autodidact much study have to be done alone, which might lead one to conclude that university is not required. But I don’t think it the case.

teisman 7y ago
In the Netherlands, there's a difference between universities (which are a form of scientific education, and often set you up for an MSc), and what they call "universities of applied science" (which are more practical in nature, and set you up a for BSc). Studying computer science to become a software engineer is probably wrong, or at least not the most efficient choice. The study of computer science primarily sets you up to become a _computer scientist_. The "problems" people face with universities are probably more about incorrect expectations of the students rather than false promises by the universities.
balfirevic 7y ago
> I wonder if it’s a biais coming from software engineering where most of the skill set is learnt by experience For the record, Bryan Caplan is an economist.
- knolax 7y ago
  So a modern day shaman who does rain dances. You don't need much of an education to the type of bullshitting he does for a living either.
  - tasogare 7y ago
    Yes, if anything it gives him even less credibility to speak about education. Wikipedia mentions that he is an "anarcho-capitalism", so he's basically trying to sell his main ideological framework without any regard to real consequence on people lives or society.
    - DataWorker 7y ago
      And he is a supported of free market labor policies. Can’t have open borders and state run big education without conflicts. At least he’s consistent in his thinking.
klibertp 7y ago
> The fundamental difference is that university forces one to learn the unfunny parts. For computer science it means for example functional programming, database normal forms, language theory, anything with mathematics inside, etc. Yeah, I agree totally, the difference is fundamental and really worrying. To think that the university managed to even convince you, that there are "unfunny" parts in programming! Pretty sad if you ask me... > But I don’t think it the case. Well, of course. You invested so much time and (if you're unlucky enough to be living in such places) money into it, it's obvious that you will defend it, consciously or not. In reality, a university is just a place that provides a set of services to the populace. Like all such places, it comes with a set of rules. And that's it - if you can find a replacement for the services you need, then it really "is not required" to get them specifically from the university. It may be hard to replace the "signaling" part of it, but it doesn't seem impossible - there are at least many well-documented examples of it being possible - while almost all the other services are already cheaply available online and in hackerspaces. With the added bonus that in the latter you interact with people genuinely interested in the subject, not people who came to pay their way to a "good education", who find said subject... unfunny.

teisman 7y ago

In the Netherlands, there's a difference between universities (which are a form of scientific education, and often set you up for an MSc), and what they call "universities of applied science" (which are more practical in nature, and set you up a for BSc). Studying computer science to become a software engineer is probably wrong, or at least not the most efficient choice. The study of computer science primarily sets you up to become a _computer scientist_. The "problems" people face with universities are probably more about incorrect expectations of the students rather than false promises by the universities.

balfirevic 7y ago

> I wonder if it’s a biais coming from software engineering where most of the skill set is learnt by experience For the record, Bryan Caplan is an economist.

knolax 7y ago
So a modern day shaman who does rain dances. You don't need much of an education to the type of bullshitting he does for a living either.
- tasogare 7y ago
  Yes, if anything it gives him even less credibility to speak about education. Wikipedia mentions that he is an "anarcho-capitalism", so he's basically trying to sell his main ideological framework without any regard to real consequence on people lives or society.
  - DataWorker 7y ago
    And he is a supported of free market labor policies. Can’t have open borders and state run big education without conflicts. At least he’s consistent in his thinking.

klibertp 7y ago

> The fundamental difference is that university forces one to learn the unfunny parts. For computer science it means for example functional programming, database normal forms, language theory, anything with mathematics inside, etc. Yeah, I agree totally, the difference is fundamental and really worrying. To think that the university managed to even convince you, that there are "unfunny" parts in programming! Pretty sad if you ask me... > But I don’t think it the case. Well, of course. You invested so much time and (if you're unlucky enough to be living in such places) money into it, it's obvious that you will defend it, consciously or not. In reality, a university is just a place that provides a set of services to the populace. Like all such places, it comes with a set of rules. And that's it - if you can find a replacement for the services you need, then it really "is not required" to get them specifically from the university. It may be hard to replace the "signaling" part of it, but it doesn't seem impossible - there are at least many well-documented examples of it being possible - while almost all the other services are already cheaply available online and in hackerspaces. With the added bonus that in the latter you interact with people genuinely interested in the subject, not people who came to pay their way to a "good education", who find said subject... unfunny.