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> Internet providers use government regulations, not available market forces, to keep out competitors. High initial investment cost have totally no role to pla

by Faark 7y ago

> Internet providers use government regulations, not available market forces, to keep out competitors. High initial investment cost have totally no role to play at that. Or landlords allowing only a single ISP [0]... that's just part of the market... you can always move, after all. But no, dysfunctional markets must be because of government regulation, since markets are so great that there are no other form of market failures. Sorry, but equating regulatory capture with "government regulations" kind of triggers me. Companies obviously will use everything possible to their advantage. Including dysfunctional governments. At that point, fixing your gov might be the more important issue... [0] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/06/fcc-siding-landlords-and-comcast-over-tenants-who-want-broadband-choices https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2019/06/fcc-siding-landlords-a...

pitaj 7y ago
High initial investment costs (for laying fiber etc) won't stop someone like Google. What stopped Google fiber was regulatory barriers set up by municipalities to help their local ISP cronies. > Sorry, but equating regulatory capture with "government regulations" kind of triggers me. Regulatory capture is composed of government regulations. > fixing your gov might be the more important issue Exactly
- scarface74 7y ago
  Well, Google isn’t blameless here. Google was also either hubristic or incompetent and thought just because they were full of smart people, could “fix” anything. Google Fiber and “shallow trenching”. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/google-fiber-exits-louisville-after-shoddy-installs-left-exposed-wires-in-roads/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/googl... It’s also not exactly unlike Google to abandon projects for the new ooh shiny.
  - tehwebguy 7y ago
    Yeah, it stretches the imagination to no end to think Google couldn’t make something work due to regulations.
  - pitaj 7y ago
    As I understand it, shallow trenching was a way to try to get around incumbent lock-in. They were trying to bypass the barriers that were raised by regulatory capture.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      No they did it just for speed and cost. Once they got permission and right of way access from the city to do trenching, it wasn’t a different permit to do shallow trenching as opposed to the regular method.
seabird 7y ago
I don't have any hard numbers, but I'm going to wager that regulatory capture through pole attach rules has way more impact than high initial investment or landlords. I've experienced how local governments handle ISP regulation first-hand. I can say with confidence that it causes many, if not most, issues with ISP monopolies in suburban and rural areas in the US.

by Faark 7y ago

pitaj 7y ago

High initial investment costs (for laying fiber etc) won't stop someone like Google. What stopped Google fiber was regulatory barriers set up by municipalities to help their local ISP cronies. > Sorry, but equating regulatory capture with "government regulations" kind of triggers me. Regulatory capture is composed of government regulations. > fixing your gov might be the more important issue Exactly

scarface74 7y ago
Well, Google isn’t blameless here. Google was also either hubristic or incompetent and thought just because they were full of smart people, could “fix” anything. Google Fiber and “shallow trenching”. https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/google-fiber-exits-louisville-after-shoddy-installs-left-exposed-wires-in-roads/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2019/02/googl... It’s also not exactly unlike Google to abandon projects for the new ooh shiny.
- tehwebguy 7y ago
  Yeah, it stretches the imagination to no end to think Google couldn’t make something work due to regulations.
- pitaj 7y ago
  As I understand it, shallow trenching was a way to try to get around incumbent lock-in. They were trying to bypass the barriers that were raised by regulatory capture.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    No they did it just for speed and cost. Once they got permission and right of way access from the city to do trenching, it wasn’t a different permit to do shallow trenching as opposed to the regular method.

seabird 7y ago

I don't have any hard numbers, but I'm going to wager that regulatory capture through pole attach rules has way more impact than high initial investment or landlords. I've experienced how local governments handle ISP regulation first-hand. I can say with confidence that it causes many, if not most, issues with ISP monopolies in suburban and rural areas in the US.