5 ms·

It matches up with the experience of anyone who has ever taken these drugs. These drugs, taken with a good group of people, always lead to a therapy-like exper

It matches up with the experience of anyone who has ever taken these drugs. These drugs, taken with a good group of people, always lead to a therapy-like experience. And as GP comment said, they give you the ability to clearly identify what bothers you in life and what to do about it. The only difference between 'medical' sessions and 'recreational' ones is that you're talking to a therapist instead of friends. Having done both, friends are generally the better option. Actually acting on that information to improve your life is a completely different task, and without taking that step, these drugs do nothing for mental health long term. There is no difference between 'medicine' and 'drug' other than some regulatory body slapping a label on it. Especially the case with psychedelics where early pioneers performed and documented way more experimentation than FDA-approved research could ever hope to cover.

golemiprague 7y ago
MDMA and LSD gives you a bit of a different perspective, K not so much. Once it wears off you stay with your insights but it can't really help you act upon them. I probably took this stuff with a bit of a more fun kind of group so there was not much of "someone raped me when i was 9" type of talk. Just the understanding that the mind can work in a different way to the normal and that you can feel and behave in a different way is the main insight, but from there you still have to do the tedious work of actually implement the changes to your life.
WalterSear 7y ago
I've been taking intranasal racemic ketamine for a year. It's not a replacement for therapy - it's treatment for organic depression. As far as we can tell, the people like me who need ketamine don't have any effective alternatives, since their depression isn't simply exacerbated situational depression, but is driven by biologic processes, specifically involving inflammation. This isn't about drug induced insight - it's about brain chemistry. There is absolutely difference between medical and recreational ketamine use, since the actual chemistry is unrelated - the high of the ketamine is not related to it's beneficial effect. Moreover, my ketamine use and schedule wouldn't make sense recreationally. The dose is just enough to be debilitating - the equivalent of 1/4-1/2 a line. Ironically, due to the unfortunate nature of contemporary american society, regulatory capture has resulted in the FDA approved ketamine (s-ketamine aka esketamine) treatment being more inebriating and less effective antidepressant than recreationally consumed ketamine - which, being unpatentable is consequently unprofitable. A less inebriating, more effective antidepressant r-ketamine is 'in the wings', in order to let pharmaceutical companies milk as much money as they can from this otherwise cheap and effective drug. Hopefully psychiatrists will see through this, and start prescribing off-label ketamine once they have seen the effect that esketamine has on their treatment resistant patients.
- wtracy 7y ago
  The problem is not that psychiatrists won't prescribe off-label ketamine. The problem is that insurance companies won't cover off-label drugs, and ketamine is too expensive for most people to pay for out of pocket.
  - WalterSear 7y ago
    Actually the problem is that doctors won't prescribe racemic ketamine - unless it's taken intravenously and consequently require medical supervision - which comes with medical malpractice insurance. I would hazard that this is the main reason why most doctors are comfortable prescribing IV ketamine rather than intranasal or subcutaneous (both of which are currently prescribed self administration methods for depression). Otherwise the risk is all on them. My intranasal (ie - same as esketamine) ketamine prescription is $70 every six weeks.
- missosoup 7y ago
  I've never heard of this before. What dose and what schedule is that dose on? Is it combined with any other treatments? How has it helped you? Do you have any sources describing this mode of treatment? Any evidence of said inflammation or its subsequent reduction after treatment? Also, recreational use != party druggies. I put recreational in quotes because authorities etc. see no difference between self-medication and party time. Based on what you said, you could go get ketamine from a street dealer and continue the same dosage/schedule 'recreationally'. I'm not saying all recreational drug use is theraputic. I'm saying the difference between 'street drug' and 'medicine' is decided mostly on politics and the profitability profile of the substance rather than its therapeutic efficacy. Also see: marijuana.
  - WalterSear 7y ago
    60mg every 3 days. I don't believe it's a common treatment modality - though my doctor has some other patients on it. The primary sensation I experience on an ongoing basis is the the elimination of the sensation of abstract physical pain that I experience with negative thoughts and mood. The process is not inherently anti-inflammatory: while high dose IV ketamine are used to treat inflammatory diseases, as I understand it, the dose I'm taking doesn't directly affect inflammation, but works by modulating glutamate signaling. The relationship between inflammation and mood isn't yet clear to science, but we know that it is likely involved in many cases of treatment resistant depression. Third hand, I know of people who are taking black market ketamine to treat depression, though I don't know what schedule they are following. There's a definite 'cliff' at the third day, as the ketamine wears off.

golemiprague 7y ago

MDMA and LSD gives you a bit of a different perspective, K not so much. Once it wears off you stay with your insights but it can't really help you act upon them. I probably took this stuff with a bit of a more fun kind of group so there was not much of "someone raped me when i was 9" type of talk. Just the understanding that the mind can work in a different way to the normal and that you can feel and behave in a different way is the main insight, but from there you still have to do the tedious work of actually implement the changes to your life.

WalterSear 7y ago

I've been taking intranasal racemic ketamine for a year. It's not a replacement for therapy - it's treatment for organic depression. As far as we can tell, the people like me who need ketamine don't have any effective alternatives, since their depression isn't simply exacerbated situational depression, but is driven by biologic processes, specifically involving inflammation. This isn't about drug induced insight - it's about brain chemistry. There is absolutely difference between medical and recreational ketamine use, since the actual chemistry is unrelated - the high of the ketamine is not related to it's beneficial effect. Moreover, my ketamine use and schedule wouldn't make sense recreationally. The dose is just enough to be debilitating - the equivalent of 1/4-1/2 a line. Ironically, due to the unfortunate nature of contemporary american society, regulatory capture has resulted in the FDA approved ketamine (s-ketamine aka esketamine) treatment being more inebriating and less effective antidepressant than recreationally consumed ketamine - which, being unpatentable is consequently unprofitable. A less inebriating, more effective antidepressant r-ketamine is 'in the wings', in order to let pharmaceutical companies milk as much money as they can from this otherwise cheap and effective drug. Hopefully psychiatrists will see through this, and start prescribing off-label ketamine once they have seen the effect that esketamine has on their treatment resistant patients.

wtracy 7y ago
The problem is not that psychiatrists won't prescribe off-label ketamine. The problem is that insurance companies won't cover off-label drugs, and ketamine is too expensive for most people to pay for out of pocket.
- WalterSear 7y ago
  Actually the problem is that doctors won't prescribe racemic ketamine - unless it's taken intravenously and consequently require medical supervision - which comes with medical malpractice insurance. I would hazard that this is the main reason why most doctors are comfortable prescribing IV ketamine rather than intranasal or subcutaneous (both of which are currently prescribed self administration methods for depression). Otherwise the risk is all on them. My intranasal (ie - same as esketamine) ketamine prescription is $70 every six weeks.
missosoup 7y ago
I've never heard of this before. What dose and what schedule is that dose on? Is it combined with any other treatments? How has it helped you? Do you have any sources describing this mode of treatment? Any evidence of said inflammation or its subsequent reduction after treatment? Also, recreational use != party druggies. I put recreational in quotes because authorities etc. see no difference between self-medication and party time. Based on what you said, you could go get ketamine from a street dealer and continue the same dosage/schedule 'recreationally'. I'm not saying all recreational drug use is theraputic. I'm saying the difference between 'street drug' and 'medicine' is decided mostly on politics and the profitability profile of the substance rather than its therapeutic efficacy. Also see: marijuana.
- WalterSear 7y ago
  60mg every 3 days. I don't believe it's a common treatment modality - though my doctor has some other patients on it. The primary sensation I experience on an ongoing basis is the the elimination of the sensation of abstract physical pain that I experience with negative thoughts and mood. The process is not inherently anti-inflammatory: while high dose IV ketamine are used to treat inflammatory diseases, as I understand it, the dose I'm taking doesn't directly affect inflammation, but works by modulating glutamate signaling. The relationship between inflammation and mood isn't yet clear to science, but we know that it is likely involved in many cases of treatment resistant depression. Third hand, I know of people who are taking black market ketamine to treat depression, though I don't know what schedule they are following. There's a definite 'cliff' at the third day, as the ketamine wears off.