4 ms·

@user5994461 is wrong Train worker do pays "much more" every month for their special pension... But currently this is not enough and the system is heavily sub

@user5994461 is wrong Train worker do pays "much more" every month for their special pension... But currently this is not enough and the system is heavily subsidized... But the biggest part of this disequilibrium is that there use to be a lot of rail workers (so a lot are retiree now), and now not so much. If they had no special treatment but a separate pension system, most of the problem would be there too...

user5994461 7y ago
I'd disagree with "much" unless you can show numbers saying how much they pay. Noting there is a variation of up to 5% in contribution depending on personal situation (including status cadre and other stuff). I have family working in national research centers and they contribute less than in the private sector (about 3%). Due to some historical agreement that's waving some mandatory contributions for all personnel of that institution.
- skitout 7y ago
  (In French) For rail worker: https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-regimes-retraite/regimes-speciaux-retraite/retraite-agents-sncf https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-r... For "normal" workers: https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-regimes-retraite/retraite-salaries-prive/comprendre-retraite-salaries-prive-cotisations-age-depart-pensions https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-r...
  - user5994461 7y ago
    My take away from this would be that it doesn't seem to allow on boarding new people and the contributions/benefits are being adjusted up/down each year over the last few years. Look like it's being shut down progressively. I can't estimate accurately what's the final rates because it's insanely complicated, but from what I can gather they are not paying "much" more at all (maybe 1-5% all things considered and mainly because it got increased recently). Interestingly, there is a subtle 23% line item that is supposed to cover the extra perks. It's specifically paid by the company besides the gross salary, so no it doesn't affect your salary or your disposable income. It's as close as it gets to magic money in French accounting and that's where it gets interesting. The SNCF itself is a public organization that is in deficit every year (in part due to this; it's all circular), so it doesn't have the funds to pay this, and it eventually has to be covered by the state (the tax payers).
    - skitout 7y ago
      So much more is paid every month for this perk than for normal worker. Note that SNCF is not in deficit every year, but generally post some profit. Though they have a unhealthy debt burden, mainly due to enormous investment needed to create the railway network. As it is seen a public infrastructure by some their is a debate on how much of it should be supported by the state (just like the state support the road system and the airtravel)
      - user5994461 7y ago
        I don't disagree that the SNCF is contributing extra (estimate 1-2B a year given 130k employees), but it's not paid by the workers, it's not taken off their salary. It is a perk and it is not taxable. Bearing in mind, the total amount even with the extra is nowhere near enough to cover the actual benefits. 2018 results say 33B in revenues, 141m in profit. I stand corrected, it's not losing money every year lately, it's about even.

user5994461 7y ago

I'd disagree with "much" unless you can show numbers saying how much they pay. Noting there is a variation of up to 5% in contribution depending on personal situation (including status cadre and other stuff). I have family working in national research centers and they contribute less than in the private sector (about 3%). Due to some historical agreement that's waving some mandatory contributions for all personnel of that institution.

skitout 7y ago
(In French) For rail worker: https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-regimes-retraite/regimes-speciaux-retraite/retraite-agents-sncf https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-r... For "normal" workers: https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-regimes-retraite/retraite-salaries-prive/comprendre-retraite-salaries-prive-cotisations-age-depart-pensions https://www.la-retraite-en-clair.fr/parcours-professionnel-r...
- user5994461 7y ago
  My take away from this would be that it doesn't seem to allow on boarding new people and the contributions/benefits are being adjusted up/down each year over the last few years. Look like it's being shut down progressively. I can't estimate accurately what's the final rates because it's insanely complicated, but from what I can gather they are not paying "much" more at all (maybe 1-5% all things considered and mainly because it got increased recently). Interestingly, there is a subtle 23% line item that is supposed to cover the extra perks. It's specifically paid by the company besides the gross salary, so no it doesn't affect your salary or your disposable income. It's as close as it gets to magic money in French accounting and that's where it gets interesting. The SNCF itself is a public organization that is in deficit every year (in part due to this; it's all circular), so it doesn't have the funds to pay this, and it eventually has to be covered by the state (the tax payers).
  - skitout 7y ago
    So much more is paid every month for this perk than for normal worker. Note that SNCF is not in deficit every year, but generally post some profit. Though they have a unhealthy debt burden, mainly due to enormous investment needed to create the railway network. As it is seen a public infrastructure by some their is a debate on how much of it should be supported by the state (just like the state support the road system and the airtravel)
    - user5994461 7y ago
      I don't disagree that the SNCF is contributing extra (estimate 1-2B a year given 130k employees), but it's not paid by the workers, it's not taken off their salary. It is a perk and it is not taxable. Bearing in mind, the total amount even with the extra is nowhere near enough to cover the actual benefits. 2018 results say 33B in revenues, 141m in profit. I stand corrected, it's not losing money every year lately, it's about even.