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This article is misleading (full disclosure, I am French and did protest against this last Thursday) This article talk mainly about "special pensions" from the

This article is misleading (full disclosure, I am French and did protest against this last Thursday) This article talk mainly about "special pensions" from the public with privilege... For sure they will be the biggest losers and they are very vocal, but the law and the protest is about much more than that... This reform will impact everybody, people will have to work longer, possibly to get a lower pension. Women are particularly exposed here. Points system allows to more easily lower the value of the point... This has been done in Sweden, and former French Minister Filon told that is one main reason he likes the point system... With this new reform, life expectancy are not taken into consideration : a manager will live longer than an industrial worker on average ; with the same share of contribution he will benefits from the system longer than "poor people" in general People working longer means... a little bit more unemployment and more health expense for the workers (and more absenteeism for companies) as older worker have more health problem. So you save some money for retirement at the expense of other public spending... Some economists, like Thomas Piketty are very vocal against this "law"... It is a pity the NYT did such a poor job...

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
The European population is stagnating or shrinking so as a millennial I have little faith in ever receiving any pension when the time comes. Whoever doesn't have a plan B (inheritance, properties for rent) will be super fucked.
- skitout 7y ago
  Automation, robots... Things are changing, so can the pension system... But this implies to share the value created by our society in a different way
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    Except most of the profits from the productivity gains of automation have been going to off shore megacorp tax havens.
    - olivermarks 7y ago
      Globalization has plateaued and to keep the money coming in the megacorps require austerity, which is essentially what the Gillet Jeunes and these strikes are protesting. The NYT piece is typical of the under reporting and spin put on this reality by the corporate media
PunchTornado 7y ago
> People working longer means... a little bit more unemployment this is not proved or true. society is not as simple as that. they thought unemployment will drop if people worked only 35h a week, but it didn't. why don't you accept that people have to work longer? the population is not booming anymore so you cannot accept future generations to pay.
- skitout 7y ago
  "why don't you accept that people have to work longer? the population is not booming anymore so you cannot accept future generations to pay. " Well that is a political choice. There are option possible where we don't work longer, and option where we work longer. According to the option money and worked are not shared in the same way. Both option are possible - e.g. different economist have different personal preference. The only think we have to is to have a debate, and a democratic decision.
  - PunchTornado 7y ago
    and will a democratic debate be achieved by mass protests in the street OR by elections? And Macron is an elected president. Instead of seeing who screams harder and who throws the bigger stones, lets see which politician is elected by the majority of French people.
    - skitout 7y ago
      Debate and a referendum would be the democratic way. Current French Republic was dubbed "presidential monarchy" (in no other democracy a single person had this level of power)... Since 2002 French President has even more power... And now with the extreme-right, who does not lose the first round of the presidential election (aside of extreme-right) win. Macron had been elected by 18% of voters, and have "full powers" for 5 years I personally don't think it is super democratic
- sokoloff 7y ago
  As life expectancy increases, it seems eminently reasonable that a typical working career would be longer. [1]-https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/graphs-maps/interpreted-graphs/life-expectancy-france/ https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/graphs-ma...
friedman23 7y ago
Thomas Piketty isn't god because he wrote a book that agreed with yours and a bunch of journalist's priors.
- skitout 7y ago
  Not saying he is god. Just saying that different people, including well-know experts, has different opinions... and that this article is misleading.
privateSFacct 7y ago
SNCF (the rail company) is something like $45 Billion in debt? Their conductors can retire using last 6 months of wages (vs avg wages)? They can retire at 52? So payments will go to 82 (france has great life expectancy) That's 30 YEARS of pension payments! They are guaranteed a job for life? They get free / low cost housing? They get 28 regular paid days off an maybe another 22 or so RTT days? (ie, 50 paid days off before any sick / unpaid etc). Not bad! These articles always start with a description of how hard the job is. In Europe they actually have great automated safety systems for trains and the trainsets are in good condition. I realize it's a hard job, but boy - my heart goes out to greyhound bus drivers in the US and many many other workers with no where NEAR these benefits and frankly much harder jobs. The special pension folks are in the streets to protect their special pensions. Tie getting rid of the special pensions (which are often for the elites) with an increase to basic pension and social safety net for all?
- skitout 7y ago
  The protest is not about SNCF - they are only part of the pic. Let's talk about the pension reform in general, not about the SNCF (with some sloppy info btw)
  - user5994461 7y ago
    The protest is about all the special pensions, SNCF and the 50 other, they're all quite similar.
    - skitout 7y ago
      I was in the protest with my friend entrepreneur, tour-guide, teacher, unemployed, artist-assistant and a bartender... Special pension is only one point of many, and there are different ways to deal with it. Note that for some special pension people pay more on their wages every month, and that special pension was also a way to stay attractive on the employment market with low salary...
      - privateSFacct 7y ago

ChuckNorris89 7y ago

The European population is stagnating or shrinking so as a millennial I have little faith in ever receiving any pension when the time comes. Whoever doesn't have a plan B (inheritance, properties for rent) will be super fucked.

skitout 7y ago
Automation, robots... Things are changing, so can the pension system... But this implies to share the value created by our society in a different way
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  Except most of the profits from the productivity gains of automation have been going to off shore megacorp tax havens.
  - olivermarks 7y ago
    Globalization has plateaued and to keep the money coming in the megacorps require austerity, which is essentially what the Gillet Jeunes and these strikes are protesting. The NYT piece is typical of the under reporting and spin put on this reality by the corporate media

PunchTornado 7y ago

> People working longer means... a little bit more unemployment this is not proved or true. society is not as simple as that. they thought unemployment will drop if people worked only 35h a week, but it didn't. why don't you accept that people have to work longer? the population is not booming anymore so you cannot accept future generations to pay.

skitout 7y ago
"why don't you accept that people have to work longer? the population is not booming anymore so you cannot accept future generations to pay. " Well that is a political choice. There are option possible where we don't work longer, and option where we work longer. According to the option money and worked are not shared in the same way. Both option are possible - e.g. different economist have different personal preference. The only think we have to is to have a debate, and a democratic decision.
- PunchTornado 7y ago
  and will a democratic debate be achieved by mass protests in the street OR by elections? And Macron is an elected president. Instead of seeing who screams harder and who throws the bigger stones, lets see which politician is elected by the majority of French people.
  - skitout 7y ago
    Debate and a referendum would be the democratic way. Current French Republic was dubbed "presidential monarchy" (in no other democracy a single person had this level of power)... Since 2002 French President has even more power... And now with the extreme-right, who does not lose the first round of the presidential election (aside of extreme-right) win. Macron had been elected by 18% of voters, and have "full powers" for 5 years I personally don't think it is super democratic
sokoloff 7y ago
As life expectancy increases, it seems eminently reasonable that a typical working career would be longer. [1]-https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/graphs-maps/interpreted-graphs/life-expectancy-france/ https://www.ined.fr/en/everything_about_population/graphs-ma...

friedman23 7y ago

Thomas Piketty isn't god because he wrote a book that agreed with yours and a bunch of journalist's priors.

skitout 7y ago
Not saying he is god. Just saying that different people, including well-know experts, has different opinions... and that this article is misleading.

privateSFacct 7y ago

SNCF (the rail company) is something like $45 Billion in debt? Their conductors can retire using last 6 months of wages (vs avg wages)? They can retire at 52? So payments will go to 82 (france has great life expectancy) That's 30 YEARS of pension payments! They are guaranteed a job for life? They get free / low cost housing? They get 28 regular paid days off an maybe another 22 or so RTT days? (ie, 50 paid days off before any sick / unpaid etc). Not bad! These articles always start with a description of how hard the job is. In Europe they actually have great automated safety systems for trains and the trainsets are in good condition. I realize it's a hard job, but boy - my heart goes out to greyhound bus drivers in the US and many many other workers with no where NEAR these benefits and frankly much harder jobs. The special pension folks are in the streets to protect their special pensions. Tie getting rid of the special pensions (which are often for the elites) with an increase to basic pension and social safety net for all?

skitout 7y ago
The protest is not about SNCF - they are only part of the pic. Let's talk about the pension reform in general, not about the SNCF (with some sloppy info btw)
- user5994461 7y ago
  The protest is about all the special pensions, SNCF and the 50 other, they're all quite similar.
  - skitout 7y ago
    I was in the protest with my friend entrepreneur, tour-guide, teacher, unemployed, artist-assistant and a bartender... Special pension is only one point of many, and there are different ways to deal with it. Note that for some special pension people pay more on their wages every month, and that special pension was also a way to stay attractive on the employment market with low salary...
    - privateSFacct 7y ago