6 ms·

> innovation has slowed to a crawl This is so typical of Apple criticism. They did do well with the iPhone and Mac that now any new innovations seem boring in

> innovation has slowed to a crawl This is so typical of Apple criticism. They did do well with the iPhone and Mac that now any new innovations seem boring in comparison. It’s wrong. The Apple Watch came out under Cook. That is more than an “accessory.” It’s a new platform, new OS variant, etc. It’s dominating smart watches. The AirPods are pretty innovative in terms of the fine grained details that have made them super successful. Latest OS builds included evidence of stereoscopic glasses in the pipeline. Remember Apple isn’t always the first with stuff, even smartphones. Their innovations are more around key details and hardware/software integration that makes the whole system work like magic.

surfmike 7y ago
And just wait for AR.
ftvy 7y ago
They've been slacking in development, both software and hardware. Look at the MacBook keyboard problem, or all of the security exploits like pressing Enter numerously to escalate to root privileges. You don't get these kinds of problems when you aren't trying to mass produce cyclical consumption.
- zepto 7y ago
  They are better on security than anyone else, so if this is ‘slacking’ it has to be contrasted with abject failure elsewhere.
wh1t3n01s3 7y ago
All these products were previously imaginedand started by SJ. Cook is a marketer not a visionary or inventor of any sort.
- edmundsauto 7y ago
  That's not an accurate depiction of Tim Cook - a man who is a very capable supply chain guy and general businessman. My personal opinion? Steve Jobs was the marketer -- his skill was getting other people with hard skills to buy into his general vision. (Recall the "reality distortion field" he possessed.)
- zepto 7y ago
  No. The Apple Watch was started under Cook.
enitihas 7y ago
Correct. People think that stuff like iPhone can just be created, if there is enough will and innovation. The iPhone is the most successful consumer electronics product of all time, and might also be the most profitable product on an yearly average basis. Failure to recreate that is not bad. Expecting any company to keep churning out things like the iPhone would be too harsh.
- JKCalhoun 7y ago
  It's more nuanced than that — things like smart phones require the serendipity of any number of both technological and even cultural events before they are born. The Newton is an interesting foil. Why wasn't the Newton the first smart phone? Early internet, barely a high-speed cellular infrastructure, silicon not quite small and efficient enough, no lithium batteries, cost.... Saying the Newton was "ahead of its time" is really a way of saying all the right bits and pieces weren't there yet. We'll know what the next "big thing" is after it happens. You can't force it though regardless of the dollars you have for R&D. Just MHO.
- sneak 7y ago
  Apple is Apple because every ten years or so they take an existing product category and make it worlds better than anyone has ever before. They’ve done this with workstations (iMac), laptops (iBook then PowerBook then unibody/retina), they’ve done this with phones, and they’ve done this with in-ear headphones. They almost did it with wireless speakers (the HomePod is an absolute engineering marvel, entirely unparalleled as a speaker), but they left out bluetooth in a platform play for AirPlay on their own phones/tablets, and it basically flopped. It would have been an airpods-level success if it were a record player that could play everybody’s records. People keep talking about how they might do it with cars, or televisions, or glasses, or whatever. But so far, as yet, that has failed to materialize. Edit: I left out the watch, despite it being the best selling watch. It isn’t as better than a normal watch as an iPhone was better than a blackberry; it is merely sufficient: great, but certainly not insanely so. If it could support Google Assistant instead of Siri, and had better bluetooth device support, and didn’t require an iphone, it might be. But the watch presently really just falls short of the Apple level expectation for a product. To be fair, that level is literally “insane”.
lioeters 7y ago
From a long-term user's perspective, that Apple magic is fading quickly to reveal the banality underneath. Same with Google. The elves have left Middle Earth.
- scarface74 7y ago
  The Apple Watch is much more impressive technically than the iPad. The iPad was easy once you had the iPhone and once it was introduced, was easily copied hardware wise. The amount of technology in the Apple Watch still hasn’t been duplicated in the same small form factor.
  - lioeters 7y ago
    I'm sure that's true, that they are continuing to innovate. I'm not familiar with the Apple Watch (nor the iPhone much to be honest). I'm kind of an old-timer that fondly remembers the Apple II and the early Macintosh. Should have added an emphasis that, _for me_, I feel that their magic is fading. Same with Google, in their early years I was amazed - now, not so much. I guess miracles don't happen so often, and I should respect their continued growth and renewal. (And there are still elves working there.)
- zepto 7y ago
  That’s nothing to do with Apple. That’s just because you are now used to the technology and not so awed by it. But that feeling is irrelevant to whether or not they are innovating or not.
OnlineGladiator 7y ago
> The Apple Watch came out under Cook. That is more than an “accessory.” It’s a new platform, new OS variant, etc. It’s dominating smart watches. The Apple Watch is literally designed to be an accessory to the iPhone - you can't use most of its features without an iPhone. I wanted one for my Android phone but tough shit for me. If you like it as a product that's fine, but it is absolutely an accessory to an iPhone because you can barely use it without one.
- rstupek 7y ago
  Right now it requires an iphone. They've been slowly reducing the need to have one until pretty soon, maybe v5, won't require one
  - berberous 7y ago
    It’s at S5 already, which is actually v6 since there’s an S0. So maybe v7.
    - wlesieutre 7y ago
      Sorta, since the S1 released alongside the S2 as a revised low end model. Versioning wise it feels more like following up the v1 with v2 and a 1.1 revision.
- spookthesunset 7y ago
  iPhones were originally an accessory to iTunes. What you complain about is all software. Software is changeable.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    The iPad even required iTunes to set up for the first year and half.
  - sneak 7y ago
    Not on these devices, it isn’t. Without Apple’s signing keys, they run whatever Apple gives you, until they are EOL’d and then they run nothing else, ever.
nvrspyx 7y ago
I won’t speak to “innovation” because of how subjective that is. However, the quality has taken a serious downturn. MBP keyboard issues, MBP speaker crackling issues since 2016, iOS 13 bugginess (random FaceID locks, lock screen refusing to turn on, phone shut offs in the middle of the night, alarms randomly not going off, bottom “gesture pill” disappearing on the lock screen making you unable to swipe up to unlock your phone requiring a reset, apps killed in the background after just a few minutes, etc etc etc), macOS bugginess with Catalina, SwiftUI mess, iCloud corrupting files, and much more. I’m at a point where I’m surprisingly preferring Windows and Linux for my desktop work. I just wish there was a better alternative in the mobile space than Android, which I feel is in an even worse state than iOS.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
petra 7y ago
// Their innovations are more around key details and hardware/software integration that makes the whole system work like magic. That philosophy was Steve Jobs' key insight back than. Today many companies excel at magical ux design. And sure, their control over iOS and their rich clients allow them to do stuff others cannot. And definetly, it's incremental innovation. But that's very little innovation, considering their size or compared to their competitors - Google AI and moonshots, Amazon(where do i even begin), or Microsoft(Cloud and their research efforts).
- scarface74 7y ago
  How much have Google’s “innovations” led to profit? People seem to forget that one of the first things Jobs did was get rid of Apple’s Advanced Technology Group and focused research on profitable products. Google’s lack of focus explains why it has had five failed messaging apps.
  - petra 7y ago
    Google is doing well. Some of their older investments (like AI maybe) are already making them money. And they have a few bets that with time and some luck could make them a lot of money. It's very likely they would be able to cover their investments, at the very least. And they have ackuired many new capabilities as a result. It makes for a better financial future, a stronger company long term, and also, contributing so much value to the world is simply a good thing.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      How much “longer term”? Compare Apple’s, Microsoft’s, or even Amazon’s revenue mix since 2001. They have all diversified. Google still makes 90%+ of its profits selling ads.
      - chrisco255 7y ago
        How's Google cloud doing? Does that count?
JKCalhoun 7y ago
You forgot Apple Pay. That's a whole new market for Apple — and seems to be doing well?
- JCharante 7y ago
  But Pay is so common. You've got Google Pay, Apple Pay, AliPay, and WeChat Pay. It's a good addition because it adds something that was really missing from the ecosystem but it's just really something that is expected.
  - mantap 7y ago
    It's also not really any better than tapping your card against the reader, which is what most people in UK do.
leetcrew 7y ago
some of the stuff they do really is stupid. I literally can't buy an apple computer with a mainstream desktop processor. they sell laptops and two different desktop computers that use laptop parts. or I can pay $6k for the pro tower with xeon parts. why do they have to make it so hard for me to get a machine that compiles code targeting their own desktop OS?
alasdair_ 7y ago
Apple is definitely working on AR glasses for 2022 to 2023 release dates. Facebook and Microsoft also have AR projects (Microsoft have actually shipped of course). Innovation at Apple scale takes time. Let’s see what happens with AR.
wbl 7y ago
I bought a mac because I wanted a Unix workstation. That's increasingly unsupported and poorly working.

surfmike 7y ago

And just wait for AR.

ftvy 7y ago

They've been slacking in development, both software and hardware. Look at the MacBook keyboard problem, or all of the security exploits like pressing Enter numerously to escalate to root privileges. You don't get these kinds of problems when you aren't trying to mass produce cyclical consumption.

zepto 7y ago
They are better on security than anyone else, so if this is ‘slacking’ it has to be contrasted with abject failure elsewhere.

wh1t3n01s3 7y ago

All these products were previously imaginedand started by SJ. Cook is a marketer not a visionary or inventor of any sort.

edmundsauto 7y ago
That's not an accurate depiction of Tim Cook - a man who is a very capable supply chain guy and general businessman. My personal opinion? Steve Jobs was the marketer -- his skill was getting other people with hard skills to buy into his general vision. (Recall the "reality distortion field" he possessed.)
zepto 7y ago
No. The Apple Watch was started under Cook.

enitihas 7y ago

Correct. People think that stuff like iPhone can just be created, if there is enough will and innovation. The iPhone is the most successful consumer electronics product of all time, and might also be the most profitable product on an yearly average basis. Failure to recreate that is not bad. Expecting any company to keep churning out things like the iPhone would be too harsh.

JKCalhoun 7y ago
It's more nuanced than that — things like smart phones require the serendipity of any number of both technological and even cultural events before they are born. The Newton is an interesting foil. Why wasn't the Newton the first smart phone? Early internet, barely a high-speed cellular infrastructure, silicon not quite small and efficient enough, no lithium batteries, cost.... Saying the Newton was "ahead of its time" is really a way of saying all the right bits and pieces weren't there yet. We'll know what the next "big thing" is after it happens. You can't force it though regardless of the dollars you have for R&D. Just MHO.
sneak 7y ago
Apple is Apple because every ten years or so they take an existing product category and make it worlds better than anyone has ever before. They’ve done this with workstations (iMac), laptops (iBook then PowerBook then unibody/retina), they’ve done this with phones, and they’ve done this with in-ear headphones. They almost did it with wireless speakers (the HomePod is an absolute engineering marvel, entirely unparalleled as a speaker), but they left out bluetooth in a platform play for AirPlay on their own phones/tablets, and it basically flopped. It would have been an airpods-level success if it were a record player that could play everybody’s records. People keep talking about how they might do it with cars, or televisions, or glasses, or whatever. But so far, as yet, that has failed to materialize. Edit: I left out the watch, despite it being the best selling watch. It isn’t as better than a normal watch as an iPhone was better than a blackberry; it is merely sufficient: great, but certainly not insanely so. If it could support Google Assistant instead of Siri, and had better bluetooth device support, and didn’t require an iphone, it might be. But the watch presently really just falls short of the Apple level expectation for a product. To be fair, that level is literally “insane”.

lioeters 7y ago

From a long-term user's perspective, that Apple magic is fading quickly to reveal the banality underneath. Same with Google. The elves have left Middle Earth.

scarface74 7y ago
The Apple Watch is much more impressive technically than the iPad. The iPad was easy once you had the iPhone and once it was introduced, was easily copied hardware wise. The amount of technology in the Apple Watch still hasn’t been duplicated in the same small form factor.
- lioeters 7y ago
  I'm sure that's true, that they are continuing to innovate. I'm not familiar with the Apple Watch (nor the iPhone much to be honest). I'm kind of an old-timer that fondly remembers the Apple II and the early Macintosh. Should have added an emphasis that, _for me_, I feel that their magic is fading. Same with Google, in their early years I was amazed - now, not so much. I guess miracles don't happen so often, and I should respect their continued growth and renewal. (And there are still elves working there.)
zepto 7y ago
That’s nothing to do with Apple. That’s just because you are now used to the technology and not so awed by it. But that feeling is irrelevant to whether or not they are innovating or not.

OnlineGladiator 7y ago

> The Apple Watch came out under Cook. That is more than an “accessory.” It’s a new platform, new OS variant, etc. It’s dominating smart watches. The Apple Watch is literally designed to be an accessory to the iPhone - you can't use most of its features without an iPhone. I wanted one for my Android phone but tough shit for me. If you like it as a product that's fine, but it is absolutely an accessory to an iPhone because you can barely use it without one.

rstupek 7y ago
Right now it requires an iphone. They've been slowly reducing the need to have one until pretty soon, maybe v5, won't require one
- berberous 7y ago
  It’s at S5 already, which is actually v6 since there’s an S0. So maybe v7.
  - wlesieutre 7y ago
    Sorta, since the S1 released alongside the S2 as a revised low end model. Versioning wise it feels more like following up the v1 with v2 and a 1.1 revision.
spookthesunset 7y ago
iPhones were originally an accessory to iTunes. What you complain about is all software. Software is changeable.
- scarface74 7y ago
  The iPad even required iTunes to set up for the first year and half.
- sneak 7y ago
  Not on these devices, it isn’t. Without Apple’s signing keys, they run whatever Apple gives you, until they are EOL’d and then they run nothing else, ever.

nvrspyx 7y ago

I won’t speak to “innovation” because of how subjective that is. However, the quality has taken a serious downturn. MBP keyboard issues, MBP speaker crackling issues since 2016, iOS 13 bugginess (random FaceID locks, lock screen refusing to turn on, phone shut offs in the middle of the night, alarms randomly not going off, bottom “gesture pill” disappearing on the lock screen making you unable to swipe up to unlock your phone requiring a reset, apps killed in the background after just a few minutes, etc etc etc), macOS bugginess with Catalina, SwiftUI mess, iCloud corrupting files, and much more. I’m at a point where I’m surprisingly preferring Windows and Linux for my desktop work. I just wish there was a better alternative in the mobile space than Android, which I feel is in an even worse state than iOS.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

petra 7y ago

// Their innovations are more around key details and hardware/software integration that makes the whole system work like magic. That philosophy was Steve Jobs' key insight back than. Today many companies excel at magical ux design. And sure, their control over iOS and their rich clients allow them to do stuff others cannot. And definetly, it's incremental innovation. But that's very little innovation, considering their size or compared to their competitors - Google AI and moonshots, Amazon(where do i even begin), or Microsoft(Cloud and their research efforts).

scarface74 7y ago
How much have Google’s “innovations” led to profit? People seem to forget that one of the first things Jobs did was get rid of Apple’s Advanced Technology Group and focused research on profitable products. Google’s lack of focus explains why it has had five failed messaging apps.
- petra 7y ago
  Google is doing well. Some of their older investments (like AI maybe) are already making them money. And they have a few bets that with time and some luck could make them a lot of money. It's very likely they would be able to cover their investments, at the very least. And they have ackuired many new capabilities as a result. It makes for a better financial future, a stronger company long term, and also, contributing so much value to the world is simply a good thing.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    How much “longer term”? Compare Apple’s, Microsoft’s, or even Amazon’s revenue mix since 2001. They have all diversified. Google still makes 90%+ of its profits selling ads.
    - chrisco255 7y ago
      How's Google cloud doing? Does that count?

JKCalhoun 7y ago

You forgot Apple Pay. That's a whole new market for Apple — and seems to be doing well?

JCharante 7y ago
But Pay is so common. You've got Google Pay, Apple Pay, AliPay, and WeChat Pay. It's a good addition because it adds something that was really missing from the ecosystem but it's just really something that is expected.
- mantap 7y ago
  It's also not really any better than tapping your card against the reader, which is what most people in UK do.

leetcrew 7y ago

some of the stuff they do really is stupid. I literally can't buy an apple computer with a mainstream desktop processor. they sell laptops and two different desktop computers that use laptop parts. or I can pay $6k for the pro tower with xeon parts. why do they have to make it so hard for me to get a machine that compiles code targeting their own desktop OS?

alasdair_ 7y ago

Apple is definitely working on AR glasses for 2022 to 2023 release dates. Facebook and Microsoft also have AR projects (Microsoft have actually shipped of course). Innovation at Apple scale takes time. Let’s see what happens with AR.

wbl 7y ago

I bought a mac because I wanted a Unix workstation. That's increasingly unsupported and poorly working.