4 ms·

Chronic inflammation appears to be caused by persistent self-stimulation -- eating for comfort or pleasure, not getting enough sleep, chain-smoking, getting hig

Chronic inflammation appears to be caused by persistent self-stimulation -- eating for comfort or pleasure, not getting enough sleep, chain-smoking, getting high, etc, without respite. So it's not really a biological problem. It's a widespread personal problem with complex biological consequences.

aw4y 7y ago
can you expand this concept?
- grabbalacious 7y ago
  Not much because it's quite nebulous. It does seem to make scientific sense that the body would reduce such defences to bare essentials like inflammation and blood clotting during crisis in order to save energy. These systems would normally come fully back online during 'rest and digest' periods when the short-term crisis is over. Why do people enjoy chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system? I think it's a form of distraction: a way of avoiding boredom or the contemplation of painful memories and personal problems. This is common sense for many people but it obviously isn't being addressed by the harder biological and medical journals because they don't like to talk about subjective experiences. Presumably because they require objectivity and they think of subjectivity as being the opposite. But this is itself a misconception: https://twitter.com/DavidDeutschOxf/status/1174630365912326144 https://twitter.com/DavidDeutschOxf/status/11746303659123261...
  - aw4y 7y ago
    thanks. in the end, I think your view is quite interesting. thanks for sharing.
    - grabbalacious 7y ago
      A pleasure!
acupofnope 7y ago
Can you cite your sources for that claim?
- grabbalacious 7y ago
  No, it's just the way it seems to me.
ScottFree 7y ago
Even if chronic inflammation was caused by self-stimulation, that still makes it a biological problem. Maybe you meant it wasn't an inherent, biological part of aging? If that's what you meant, then I still don't agree. IMHO, the biggest contributor to chronic inflammation is the Standard American Diet (lots of grains and refined foods) combined with a lack of exercise. These things have a greater, compounding effect with age. You can't exactly tell an 80 year old woman to start running or lift weights on a daily basis.
- grabbalacious 7y ago
  OK, but only in the sense that a car crash is a mechanical problem (there may be repairs to make). >lots of grains and refined foods i.e. rather tasty! I don't think we can escape from motives here: they select what type of diet we prefer given the choice. The market caters to that.
  - ScottFree 7y ago
    > i.e. rather tasty! Most people don't find refined foods tasty. In blind taste tests, people vastly prefer the old McDonalds fries back when they used actual potatoes and fried them in lard. Then the American Government said it was illegal to use lard for "health reasons" and they need to use vegetable oil instead. As it turns out, vegetable oils are considerably more pro-inflammatory than lard and, as a result, are extremely unhealthy compared to lard. > OK, but only in the sense that a car crash is a mechanical problem (there may be repairs to make). You're making a category error. Self-stimulating activities and inflammation are orthogonal. Mechanical problems don't always cause accidents and accidents aren't always the result of mechanical problems. Similarly, not all self-stimulating activities contribute to chronic inflammation. Eating better will absolutely help decrease chronic inflammation, but smoking pot is anti-inflammatory. PS: are you a bear or ilk? Feel free to email me if you don't want to answer publicly.
    - knubie 7y ago
      > back when they used actual potatoes What are they using now?
therealcamino 7y ago
Even supposing that were true, it's arbitrary to place fallible biological systems of motivation and reward into the "personal problem" category, as if they were not part of the same overall biological system.
- grabbalacious 7y ago
  If a computer program crashes would you investigate the problem by opening the case and testing the chips inside with a voltmeter? My motivation in labelling the problem as I did is to show where I think it truly lies and thus make it easier to solve. Metabolism is notoriously complicated.

aw4y 7y ago

can you expand this concept?

grabbalacious 7y ago
Not much because it's quite nebulous. It does seem to make scientific sense that the body would reduce such defences to bare essentials like inflammation and blood clotting during crisis in order to save energy. These systems would normally come fully back online during 'rest and digest' periods when the short-term crisis is over. Why do people enjoy chronic activation of the sympathetic nervous system? I think it's a form of distraction: a way of avoiding boredom or the contemplation of painful memories and personal problems. This is common sense for many people but it obviously isn't being addressed by the harder biological and medical journals because they don't like to talk about subjective experiences. Presumably because they require objectivity and they think of subjectivity as being the opposite. But this is itself a misconception: https://twitter.com/DavidDeutschOxf/status/1174630365912326144 https://twitter.com/DavidDeutschOxf/status/11746303659123261...
- aw4y 7y ago
  thanks. in the end, I think your view is quite interesting. thanks for sharing.
  - grabbalacious 7y ago
    A pleasure!

acupofnope 7y ago

Can you cite your sources for that claim?

grabbalacious 7y ago
No, it's just the way it seems to me.

ScottFree 7y ago

Even if chronic inflammation was caused by self-stimulation, that still makes it a biological problem. Maybe you meant it wasn't an inherent, biological part of aging? If that's what you meant, then I still don't agree. IMHO, the biggest contributor to chronic inflammation is the Standard American Diet (lots of grains and refined foods) combined with a lack of exercise. These things have a greater, compounding effect with age. You can't exactly tell an 80 year old woman to start running or lift weights on a daily basis.

grabbalacious 7y ago
OK, but only in the sense that a car crash is a mechanical problem (there may be repairs to make). >lots of grains and refined foods i.e. rather tasty! I don't think we can escape from motives here: they select what type of diet we prefer given the choice. The market caters to that.
- ScottFree 7y ago
  > i.e. rather tasty! Most people don't find refined foods tasty. In blind taste tests, people vastly prefer the old McDonalds fries back when they used actual potatoes and fried them in lard. Then the American Government said it was illegal to use lard for "health reasons" and they need to use vegetable oil instead. As it turns out, vegetable oils are considerably more pro-inflammatory than lard and, as a result, are extremely unhealthy compared to lard. > OK, but only in the sense that a car crash is a mechanical problem (there may be repairs to make). You're making a category error. Self-stimulating activities and inflammation are orthogonal. Mechanical problems don't always cause accidents and accidents aren't always the result of mechanical problems. Similarly, not all self-stimulating activities contribute to chronic inflammation. Eating better will absolutely help decrease chronic inflammation, but smoking pot is anti-inflammatory. PS: are you a bear or ilk? Feel free to email me if you don't want to answer publicly.
  - knubie 7y ago
    > back when they used actual potatoes What are they using now?

therealcamino 7y ago

Even supposing that were true, it's arbitrary to place fallible biological systems of motivation and reward into the "personal problem" category, as if they were not part of the same overall biological system.

grabbalacious 7y ago
If a computer program crashes would you investigate the problem by opening the case and testing the chips inside with a voltmeter? My motivation in labelling the problem as I did is to show where I think it truly lies and thus make it easier to solve. Metabolism is notoriously complicated.