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What's the actual story here? This can't be the first trading firm that doesn't have human traders?

abbadadda 7y ago
I agree there is not much of a story here. On their website they list that they're recruiting for "Operations". This means there are humans operating the trading strategies, even if they don't call them "traders." Most firms have "operational traders" and calling them something other than traders is a little bit disingenuous. I have email correspondence with XTX regarding a "Trading Operations" job posting, so to write an article about how there are no humans involved in the process is not only not really a story, but also probably inaccurate. With all that said, they've done well so kudos to them. But is it worth a story? Probably not.
EsssM7QVMehFPAs 7y ago
Look at their revenue vs net profit chart. I bet scaling this kind of investment model that reliably is something out of the ordinary. They print money.
- qeternity 7y ago
  Look at some other hft shops like Virtu for instance, this is fairly common. What is difficult is scaling the activity. These guys take on very little risk, which makes it difficult to deploy lots of capital. The guys who manage to crack that balance are the more money than God types like RenTech.
dcolkitt 7y ago
The real story is that XTX is primarily a currency trader. Unlike stocks, futures or options, currencies aren't tied to a single exchange. If you want to go out and change your dollars to yen, there's not a single venue or even federated system for doing that. If you go out and build an amazing strategy for, say, index futures, all you have to do is set up an account at the futures exchange. If you make a bunch of money the exchange doesn't care. The exchange isn't your counterparty, so your profits don't come at their expense. They're just happy to execute the volume. Whereas with currency, most trades are done through over-the-counter "liquidity providers" (LP), traditionally major international banks. If you make too much money, the LPs get pissed off. Since they're acting as your direct counterparty, your profit comes at their expense. Consequently, a great trading system alone isn't worth that much in currency space. If you make too much money, you'll just get banned from all the LPs. Like many others who tried to break into the space, XTX already had great HFT trading models. But their real innovation become an LP themselves. Rather than beg the major banking franchises to give them a seat at their table, they went out and built their own. That required creating business relationships with upstream sources of order flow, like retail forex brokers. That customer base gave them the capability to capture market share without worrying about counterparty risk. Combined with their superior HFT models, it gives them a major edge over traditional banks and LPs. They can offer tighter spreads and still make a profit at a price point that their competitors can't.
- avn2109 7y ago
  This is much better than the article and should be the top comment.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  XTX did all that without humans?

I agree there is not much of a story here. On their website they list that they're recruiting for "Operations". This means there are humans operating the trading strategies, even if they don't call them "traders." Most firms have "operational traders" and calling them something other than traders is a little bit disingenuous. I have email correspondence with XTX regarding a "Trading Operations" job posting, so to write an article about how there are no humans involved in the process is not only not really a story, but also probably inaccurate. With all that said, they've done well so kudos to them. But is it worth a story? Probably not.

EsssM7QVMehFPAs 7y ago

Look at their revenue vs net profit chart. I bet scaling this kind of investment model that reliably is something out of the ordinary. They print money.

qeternity 7y ago
Look at some other hft shops like Virtu for instance, this is fairly common. What is difficult is scaling the activity. These guys take on very little risk, which makes it difficult to deploy lots of capital. The guys who manage to crack that balance are the more money than God types like RenTech.

dcolkitt 7y ago

The real story is that XTX is primarily a currency trader. Unlike stocks, futures or options, currencies aren't tied to a single exchange. If you want to go out and change your dollars to yen, there's not a single venue or even federated system for doing that. If you go out and build an amazing strategy for, say, index futures, all you have to do is set up an account at the futures exchange. If you make a bunch of money the exchange doesn't care. The exchange isn't your counterparty, so your profits don't come at their expense. They're just happy to execute the volume. Whereas with currency, most trades are done through over-the-counter "liquidity providers" (LP), traditionally major international banks. If you make too much money, the LPs get pissed off. Since they're acting as your direct counterparty, your profit comes at their expense. Consequently, a great trading system alone isn't worth that much in currency space. If you make too much money, you'll just get banned from all the LPs. Like many others who tried to break into the space, XTX already had great HFT trading models. But their real innovation become an LP themselves. Rather than beg the major banking franchises to give them a seat at their table, they went out and built their own. That required creating business relationships with upstream sources of order flow, like retail forex brokers. That customer base gave them the capability to capture market share without worrying about counterparty risk. Combined with their superior HFT models, it gives them a major edge over traditional banks and LPs. They can offer tighter spreads and still make a profit at a price point that their competitors can't.

avn2109 7y ago
This is much better than the article and should be the top comment.
lonelappde 7y ago
XTX did all that without humans?