5 ms·

I've come to accept the notion of no privacy in public spaces, as long as individuals retain the right to surveil everything too, and to publicly release our vi

I've come to accept the notion of no privacy in public spaces, as long as individuals retain the right to surveil everything too, and to publicly release our videos about police misbehavior and everything else we catch on camera. The balance of surveillance power between government, corporations, and the public must be maintained.

AndrewBissell 7y ago
"Public spaces" are where the hoi polloi live and occasionally commit crimes. It's deluded to think persistent surveillance of them by individuals represents some kind of rough balance of power with government & corporations.
- ummonk 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure most people live in private dwellings.
  - ghostly_s 7y ago
    Do you ever leave your private dwelling? Are you not "living" when you do so?
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    Wealthy and powerful people tend not to walk the streets in the same way as regular folk, in much the same way they don't do their own grocery shopping or stand in line to buy movie tickets.
    - matz1 7y ago
      Privacy or not, wealthy and powerful people by definition do not live the same way as regular people. They always have advantage over regular people.
mercoles 7y ago
The "I have nothing to hide" defense of public or private space is great unless you are on the run from domestic or other types of violence. Then, you will want the right not just to be forgotten, but to be hidden.
chaps 7y ago
Yes, however.. the sad, frustrating and unfortunate thing is that police agencies 1. don't maintain their records very well and 2. police agencies use tons of tactics to prevent the public from getting access to its records. So the public's access to use police agencies' own self-monitoring to create conditions of somewhat reciprocal privacy is stymied by intentional resistance. Often times the only way forward is through very time consuming law suits. That said, if you want to know how to help out, you can start by submitting public records requests for information on your local law enforcement agency. There's so much to do!
- SkyMarshal 7y ago
  What I meant is that an individual's ability to use their own portable camera (in phones, etc) to film anything happening in public spaces, including police misconduct, should never be infringed or made illegal. That's the ultimate against counter police misconduct 1) happening and 2) being hidden/obscured/obstructed by police agencies as you describe.
  - chaps 7y ago
    I'm suggesting that both are possible at the same time.
    - SkyMarshal 7y ago
      That's the ideal for sure.
  - kyuudou 7y ago
    >to film anything happening in public spaces, I was tracking the progress of some activists who decided to action in this respect, Peaceful Streets Project (http://peacefulstreets.com/ http://peacefulstreets.com/), in Austin a few years back. The police started getting super pissed at all these people filming them while doing arrests in public to ensure proper procedure. At some point the police came up with some ordinance saying you had to be 50 feet or some other ridiculous distance away from an officer engaged in duty, I think. Anyway perhaps some of you can stop talking theory and take action like the PSP has done. Be forewarned that getting on the police's radar is not going to be fun, depending how high they are on the thuggish crony scale. You might even be arrested for interfering with an officer's duties and find yourself in a byzantine justice system that will make you hate it forever. I think the efforts of the PSP did eventually result in the Austin PD wearing bodycams so that all their activity on the clock is recorded. There's a little cottage industry in making such wearable devices such that they hold up to the scrutiny of chain-of-custody and other legal concepts behind securing evidence and all that jazz. If enough people do it, it can work. The hard part is getting to that tipping point to convince enough people to do it without real fear of reprisal or complicating their lives.
take_a_breath 7y ago
Government and corporations are working together against the public. We see this over and over again in US society. Through this lens, a clear pattern emerges from disparate issues like Citizens United and the Patriot Act to tax cuts, education, labor laws and healthcare. Meanwhile, citizens squabble about identity politics and culture wars too much to notice or care.
- pstuart 7y ago
  > Government and corporations are working together against the public That sounds like fascism to me. The division within the public is by design, and highly effective. I'm not sure how it can be combatted. The closest "solution" that comes to mind is to be able to out-meme and soundbite the oppressors so that the public has easily digested messages of unity.

AndrewBissell 7y ago

"Public spaces" are where the hoi polloi live and occasionally commit crimes. It's deluded to think persistent surveillance of them by individuals represents some kind of rough balance of power with government & corporations.

ummonk 7y ago
I'm pretty sure most people live in private dwellings.
- ghostly_s 7y ago
  Do you ever leave your private dwelling? Are you not "living" when you do so?
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  Wealthy and powerful people tend not to walk the streets in the same way as regular folk, in much the same way they don't do their own grocery shopping or stand in line to buy movie tickets.
  - matz1 7y ago
    Privacy or not, wealthy and powerful people by definition do not live the same way as regular people. They always have advantage over regular people.

mercoles 7y ago

The "I have nothing to hide" defense of public or private space is great unless you are on the run from domestic or other types of violence. Then, you will want the right not just to be forgotten, but to be hidden.

chaps 7y ago

Yes, however.. the sad, frustrating and unfortunate thing is that police agencies 1. don't maintain their records very well and 2. police agencies use tons of tactics to prevent the public from getting access to its records. So the public's access to use police agencies' own self-monitoring to create conditions of somewhat reciprocal privacy is stymied by intentional resistance. Often times the only way forward is through very time consuming law suits. That said, if you want to know how to help out, you can start by submitting public records requests for information on your local law enforcement agency. There's so much to do!

SkyMarshal 7y ago
What I meant is that an individual's ability to use their own portable camera (in phones, etc) to film anything happening in public spaces, including police misconduct, should never be infringed or made illegal. That's the ultimate against counter police misconduct 1) happening and 2) being hidden/obscured/obstructed by police agencies as you describe.
- chaps 7y ago
  I'm suggesting that both are possible at the same time.
  - SkyMarshal 7y ago
    That's the ideal for sure.
- kyuudou 7y ago
  >to film anything happening in public spaces, I was tracking the progress of some activists who decided to action in this respect, Peaceful Streets Project (http://peacefulstreets.com/ http://peacefulstreets.com/), in Austin a few years back. The police started getting super pissed at all these people filming them while doing arrests in public to ensure proper procedure. At some point the police came up with some ordinance saying you had to be 50 feet or some other ridiculous distance away from an officer engaged in duty, I think. Anyway perhaps some of you can stop talking theory and take action like the PSP has done. Be forewarned that getting on the police's radar is not going to be fun, depending how high they are on the thuggish crony scale. You might even be arrested for interfering with an officer's duties and find yourself in a byzantine justice system that will make you hate it forever. I think the efforts of the PSP did eventually result in the Austin PD wearing bodycams so that all their activity on the clock is recorded. There's a little cottage industry in making such wearable devices such that they hold up to the scrutiny of chain-of-custody and other legal concepts behind securing evidence and all that jazz. If enough people do it, it can work. The hard part is getting to that tipping point to convince enough people to do it without real fear of reprisal or complicating their lives.

take_a_breath 7y ago

Government and corporations are working together against the public. We see this over and over again in US society. Through this lens, a clear pattern emerges from disparate issues like Citizens United and the Patriot Act to tax cuts, education, labor laws and healthcare. Meanwhile, citizens squabble about identity politics and culture wars too much to notice or care.

pstuart 7y ago
> Government and corporations are working together against the public That sounds like fascism to me. The division within the public is by design, and highly effective. I'm not sure how it can be combatted. The closest "solution" that comes to mind is to be able to out-meme and soundbite the oppressors so that the public has easily digested messages of unity.