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Use the same guiding spirit as the rural electrification project of the 1930's to get this done. Bringing symmetrical broadband service to every address in the

Use the same guiding spirit as the rural electrification project of the 1930's to get this done. Bringing symmetrical broadband service to every address in the US is just as important as electrifying the countryside was back then.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
derg 7y ago
Correct. The internet is a requirement for modern life and should be treated as an important utility.
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Broadband rollout costs suffer horribly with 80/20 rule, with rolling out broadband to the last 5% being extremely expensive. I’d like to see something like fiber to 80% of the country, and then alternatives (like low-attitude satellite internet) for the last 20%. Give companies huge tax breaks if they’re doing this work.
- iron0013 7y ago
  We tried tax breaks--hell, we even tried simply giving companies like comcast billions to do the job. Instead they just took the money and didn't do anything. If we the people want something done, we have to do it ourselves.
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    Giving contracts and giving tax breaks are very different things.
- pwinnski 7y ago
  We've done this once or twice already, with electricity and telephone service, and that followed the same economic pattern. No need to reinvent a process that worked well the first time around.
  - rayiner 7y ago
    Labor costs have changed dramatically since then. We couldn’t build the New York Subway at today’s prices, for example.
    - dv_dt 7y ago
      Decades of productivity of improvements make higher labor costs completely bearable. In fact, one might say that is the fundamental basis of advancing civilization.
      - bcrosby95 7y ago
        Has that really affected labor costs related to broadband rollout? We're still sticking wires up on poles or in the ground - from what I can tell by using the same machinery we have for decades now.
        dv_dt 7y ago
        Small scale digging & semi-automated specialized trenching equipment makes for smaller crews, smaller capital investment, and less time to dig a given trench. (Did you know that there's a delightfully named machine called a Ditch Witch?) For another, the equipment you need to support a given level of bandwidth has dropped orders of magnitude in cost. For another, endpoint hookups are faster and easier, we know much better how to splice fiber faster and cheaper. etc etc... it takes a real lack of imagination to claim it's the same as when we put in electricity and telephone networks or even early fiber or copper networks.
    - spaceribs 7y ago
      but we can afford multi-billionaires and imperialism...
      - rayiner 7y ago
        Fun fact: confiscating the total wealth of all US billionaires (accumulated over a lifetime), would fuel government for less than six months.
- AngryData 7y ago
  Underground work is multiple times cheaper these days and aerial installations are easier than ever because you can wrap fiber over already existent copper phone lines. And even when doing aerials, you don't even need any kind of certifications or permits because you are never going past phone line height towards power. Your arguments are the same exact same arguments big companies had when rolling out the initial electrical and phone grids, and yet today we would find it ridiculous if you said you weren't able to get electrical service to your house.
iron0013 7y ago
This is exactly right! A "new" New Deal which in part addresses the USA's crumbling and outdated infrastructure would be a far better solution than the patchwork of government-guaranteed corporate monopolies we have now.
dmix 7y ago
Why not just do that then... subsidize the rural areas. Everything else sounds a bit extreme or unrelated.
- Miner49er 7y ago
  That's what the plan is. It's basically just grants for small communities to start ISPs.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  I don't know; my ISP has raised my bill by 50% over the last three years. My only other option is EarthLink, and they charge... wait for it... the exact same price. I live just outside Austin. I could use some competition in this space.
GhettoMaestro 7y ago
Great idea. I am going to reuse that analogy.
mamon 7y ago
Symmetrical broadband is useless for people outside HN buble who don’t run home servers, and asymmetric connections help drive the cost down
- chatmasta 7y ago
  It only appears useless now because nobody has it, so there are no business models that depend on it. Symmetrical broadband enables a lot of really interesting p2p use cases that are otherwise infeasible. Think content distribution, routing, etc. You don’t need to be part of the tech crowd to benefit from p2p software. If everyone had upload speeds as fast as download speeds, “personal clouds” and a “data center in every home” would be real possibilities.
joshypants 7y ago
This is correct, and those who want to read more about the Rural Electrification Administration can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Act Public goods can be good.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

derg 7y ago

Correct. The internet is a requirement for modern life and should be treated as an important utility.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

Broadband rollout costs suffer horribly with 80/20 rule, with rolling out broadband to the last 5% being extremely expensive. I’d like to see something like fiber to 80% of the country, and then alternatives (like low-attitude satellite internet) for the last 20%. Give companies huge tax breaks if they’re doing this work.

iron0013 7y ago
We tried tax breaks--hell, we even tried simply giving companies like comcast billions to do the job. Instead they just took the money and didn't do anything. If we the people want something done, we have to do it ourselves.
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  Giving contracts and giving tax breaks are very different things.
pwinnski 7y ago
We've done this once or twice already, with electricity and telephone service, and that followed the same economic pattern. No need to reinvent a process that worked well the first time around.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Labor costs have changed dramatically since then. We couldn’t build the New York Subway at today’s prices, for example.
  - dv_dt 7y ago
    Decades of productivity of improvements make higher labor costs completely bearable. In fact, one might say that is the fundamental basis of advancing civilization.
    - bcrosby95 7y ago
      Has that really affected labor costs related to broadband rollout? We're still sticking wires up on poles or in the ground - from what I can tell by using the same machinery we have for decades now.
      - dv_dt 7y ago
        Small scale digging & semi-automated specialized trenching equipment makes for smaller crews, smaller capital investment, and less time to dig a given trench. (Did you know that there's a delightfully named machine called a Ditch Witch?) For another, the equipment you need to support a given level of bandwidth has dropped orders of magnitude in cost. For another, endpoint hookups are faster and easier, we know much better how to splice fiber faster and cheaper. etc etc... it takes a real lack of imagination to claim it's the same as when we put in electricity and telephone networks or even early fiber or copper networks.
  - spaceribs 7y ago
    but we can afford multi-billionaires and imperialism...
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Fun fact: confiscating the total wealth of all US billionaires (accumulated over a lifetime), would fuel government for less than six months.
AngryData 7y ago
Underground work is multiple times cheaper these days and aerial installations are easier than ever because you can wrap fiber over already existent copper phone lines. And even when doing aerials, you don't even need any kind of certifications or permits because you are never going past phone line height towards power. Your arguments are the same exact same arguments big companies had when rolling out the initial electrical and phone grids, and yet today we would find it ridiculous if you said you weren't able to get electrical service to your house.

iron0013 7y ago

This is exactly right! A "new" New Deal which in part addresses the USA's crumbling and outdated infrastructure would be a far better solution than the patchwork of government-guaranteed corporate monopolies we have now.

dmix 7y ago

Why not just do that then... subsidize the rural areas. Everything else sounds a bit extreme or unrelated.

Miner49er 7y ago
That's what the plan is. It's basically just grants for small communities to start ISPs.
EpicEng 7y ago
I don't know; my ISP has raised my bill by 50% over the last three years. My only other option is EarthLink, and they charge... wait for it... the exact same price. I live just outside Austin. I could use some competition in this space.

GhettoMaestro 7y ago

Great idea. I am going to reuse that analogy.

mamon 7y ago

Symmetrical broadband is useless for people outside HN buble who don’t run home servers, and asymmetric connections help drive the cost down

chatmasta 7y ago
It only appears useless now because nobody has it, so there are no business models that depend on it. Symmetrical broadband enables a lot of really interesting p2p use cases that are otherwise infeasible. Think content distribution, routing, etc. You don’t need to be part of the tech crowd to benefit from p2p software. If everyone had upload speeds as fast as download speeds, “personal clouds” and a “data center in every home” would be real possibilities.

joshypants 7y ago

This is correct, and those who want to read more about the Rural Electrification Administration can start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rural_Electrification_Act Public goods can be good.