5 ms·

>There's no point in trying to settle down in a world where it is impossible to meet people or build communities. this attitude is exactly WHY it's so hard to

by mdszy 7y ago

>There's no point in trying to settle down in a world where it is impossible to meet people or build communities. this attitude is exactly WHY it's so hard to meet people or build communities.

leggomylibro 7y ago
Well, personally I spent about 5 years trying in Seattle. Endless meetups, volunteering, local events, you name it. But without a Facebook presence, trying to make friends or date or build a life is like trying to make water flow uphill. There's only so long that you can try and so much that you can do before you give up in despair. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you cannot be part of a community without the participation of other people.
- mdszy 7y ago
  I have lifelong friends who I've never used Facebook to communicate with. If you've tried this many times and keep failing maybe the problem is with you.
  - leggomylibro 7y ago
    Maybe it is me, but when did you meet those friends? I've tried to contort myself and my personality into just about every shape that I can imagine over the course of those years. I don't think that there's anything wrong with me, and I do my best to be kinder than is necessary, but here I am. So yes, maybe the problem is me. I hope not, but if it is and if I can't change that, then leaving society still seems like a sensible thing to do.
    - mdszy 7y ago
      There's a saying I like. "If one day, you meet an asshole - then you met an asshole. If one day, you meet a hundred assholes - then you're an asshole." A bit harsh, perhaps, but still relevant.
      - leggomylibro 7y ago
        Yes, I think about that saying every day, and have for years. It is difficult.
      - traveler1234 7y ago
        Yea but if you look around you and everyone seems to be antisocial to each other (removing yourself from the picture) you might be in the wrong place. If you can travel somewhere else and immediately people treat you differently than it's not you, it's the place.
  - racketracer 7y ago
    Savage AF
  - kingkawn 7y ago
    The least helpful intervention imaginable
- l_t 7y ago
  Sounds like you might have been experiencing a bit of the Seattle Freeze [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze
- bitexploder 7y ago
  Those things can help, but I have found you have to go much deeper than meetups and single one-off events. I have noticed a number of people in the current generation are kind of handicapped when it comes to forming social connections. Digital social media tools build surface level only communities in many cases. Meetups go deeper, but it is all still surface level. One solution to this is to find a deep and meaningful hobby in your area. I have found Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (a grappling martial art) to be one such "real" community. IDK, I still think van life is a legitimate way to live, but without digging into community issues and essentially abandoning all communities there never will be any communities people can adopt. Here is what works about BJJ and the community it builds: 1.) Doing a physically hard thing together 2.) Broad appeal, very technical if you want it to be 3.) See the same people every week for years 4.) Goal is to improve each others skills in BJJ, but it is a very difficult martial art that builds a mindset of overcoming struggle 5.) My academy we give back to our broader community through charity events, etc. 6.) Community is a mindset. I have found you have to really push and pull the younger generations out of their shell and show them how to socialize to some extent. -- Of course those qualities above aren't the only qualities that build a community but there are common themes. Working together to pull each other up with a perceivable sense of forward progress is a big element. I am not such a pessimist about communities and the current generation, but I definitely see how digital media and social media have stunted real communities in favor of shallower ones.
  - leggomylibro 7y ago
    Thank you for your insight. What you say resonates a lot with my experience, and I'm glad that you've found something which brings people around you together in a positive way.
  - Nasrudith 7y ago
    I heard the same exact sort of complaints before the internet existed as even a niche thing for the ubernerds. Industrialization is a common culprit but given the "urge to go away adventuring or sailing" I suspect base human condition personally. On a related note about community it brings to mind Fight Club, Rent, and other "pre-Great Recession" aging very poorly as bitching about your cozy office job which pays the rent handily just came across as a spoiled rich kid to those in the downturn.
- jriot 7y ago
  The PNW is terrible for community building. I recently moved to the deep south and the overall vibe is much different, much more focused on community.
  - rb808 7y ago
    Yeah I know people that moved N-West from the East coast and they all had trouble making friends. Maybe just the culture is too different.
    - ctrl-j 7y ago
      Seattle itself has a reputation for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze
    - jriot 7y ago
      While the culture is different, the difference I see, is that people in the NW want to keep to themselves, where other places people want to share.
  - yellow_postit 7y ago
    My experience has been in any place with a high concentration of transplants (Seattle, London) many are expecting third parties like Meetups to form the community when the hard part is the actually asking people to spend time together and then following up, even if the interest starts asymmetric. It is akin to dating.
  - p7hwfizeONj 7y ago
    The Wikipedia article on "Seattle Freeze" suggests there might be something to Washington's introversion. > While some residents dispute the existence of the Seattle Freeze, a 2008 peer-reviewed study published in Perspectives on Psychological Science found that among all 50 states, Washington residents ranked 48th in the personality trait extraversion. In 2014 a similar report by the Seattle CityClub ranked the population 48th out of 50 similarly-sized cities in activities such as "talking with neighbors frequently". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze
- deleted 7y ago
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jcroll 7y ago
Agreed, it's terribly cynical

by mdszy 7y ago

>There's no point in trying to settle down in a world where it is impossible to meet people or build communities. this attitude is exactly WHY it's so hard to meet people or build communities.

leggomylibro 7y ago

Well, personally I spent about 5 years trying in Seattle. Endless meetups, volunteering, local events, you name it. But without a Facebook presence, trying to make friends or date or build a life is like trying to make water flow uphill. There's only so long that you can try and so much that you can do before you give up in despair. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you cannot be part of a community without the participation of other people.

mdszy 7y ago
I have lifelong friends who I've never used Facebook to communicate with. If you've tried this many times and keep failing maybe the problem is with you.
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  Maybe it is me, but when did you meet those friends? I've tried to contort myself and my personality into just about every shape that I can imagine over the course of those years. I don't think that there's anything wrong with me, and I do my best to be kinder than is necessary, but here I am. So yes, maybe the problem is me. I hope not, but if it is and if I can't change that, then leaving society still seems like a sensible thing to do.
  - mdszy 7y ago
    There's a saying I like. "If one day, you meet an asshole - then you met an asshole. If one day, you meet a hundred assholes - then you're an asshole." A bit harsh, perhaps, but still relevant.
    - leggomylibro 7y ago
      Yes, I think about that saying every day, and have for years. It is difficult.
    - traveler1234 7y ago
      Yea but if you look around you and everyone seems to be antisocial to each other (removing yourself from the picture) you might be in the wrong place. If you can travel somewhere else and immediately people treat you differently than it's not you, it's the place.
- racketracer 7y ago
  Savage AF
- kingkawn 7y ago
  The least helpful intervention imaginable
l_t 7y ago
Sounds like you might have been experiencing a bit of the Seattle Freeze [0]. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze
bitexploder 7y ago
Those things can help, but I have found you have to go much deeper than meetups and single one-off events. I have noticed a number of people in the current generation are kind of handicapped when it comes to forming social connections. Digital social media tools build surface level only communities in many cases. Meetups go deeper, but it is all still surface level. One solution to this is to find a deep and meaningful hobby in your area. I have found Brazilian Jiu Jitsu (a grappling martial art) to be one such "real" community. IDK, I still think van life is a legitimate way to live, but without digging into community issues and essentially abandoning all communities there never will be any communities people can adopt. Here is what works about BJJ and the community it builds: 1.) Doing a physically hard thing together 2.) Broad appeal, very technical if you want it to be 3.) See the same people every week for years 4.) Goal is to improve each others skills in BJJ, but it is a very difficult martial art that builds a mindset of overcoming struggle 5.) My academy we give back to our broader community through charity events, etc. 6.) Community is a mindset. I have found you have to really push and pull the younger generations out of their shell and show them how to socialize to some extent. -- Of course those qualities above aren't the only qualities that build a community but there are common themes. Working together to pull each other up with a perceivable sense of forward progress is a big element. I am not such a pessimist about communities and the current generation, but I definitely see how digital media and social media have stunted real communities in favor of shallower ones.
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  Thank you for your insight. What you say resonates a lot with my experience, and I'm glad that you've found something which brings people around you together in a positive way.
- Nasrudith 7y ago
  I heard the same exact sort of complaints before the internet existed as even a niche thing for the ubernerds. Industrialization is a common culprit but given the "urge to go away adventuring or sailing" I suspect base human condition personally. On a related note about community it brings to mind Fight Club, Rent, and other "pre-Great Recession" aging very poorly as bitching about your cozy office job which pays the rent handily just came across as a spoiled rich kid to those in the downturn.
jriot 7y ago
The PNW is terrible for community building. I recently moved to the deep south and the overall vibe is much different, much more focused on community.
- rb808 7y ago
  Yeah I know people that moved N-West from the East coast and they all had trouble making friends. Maybe just the culture is too different.
  - ctrl-j 7y ago
    Seattle itself has a reputation for this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze
  - jriot 7y ago
    While the culture is different, the difference I see, is that people in the NW want to keep to themselves, where other places people want to share.
- yellow_postit 7y ago
  My experience has been in any place with a high concentration of transplants (Seattle, London) many are expecting third parties like Meetups to form the community when the hard part is the actually asking people to spend time together and then following up, even if the interest starts asymmetric. It is akin to dating.
- p7hwfizeONj 7y ago
  The Wikipedia article on "Seattle Freeze" suggests there might be something to Washington's introversion. > While some residents dispute the existence of the Seattle Freeze, a 2008 peer-reviewed study published in Perspectives on Psychological Science found that among all 50 states, Washington residents ranked 48th in the personality trait extraversion. In 2014 a similar report by the Seattle CityClub ranked the population 48th out of 50 similarly-sized cities in activities such as "talking with neighbors frequently". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze
deleted 7y ago
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deleted 7y ago

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jcroll 7y ago

Agreed, it's terribly cynical