8 ms·

I'm not surprised that this is such a popular "quarter-life crisis" for my generations (millennial / genZ). There's no point in trying to settle down in a world

I'm not surprised that this is such a popular "quarter-life crisis" for my generations (millennial / genZ). There's no point in trying to settle down in a world where it is impossible to meet people or build communities. And it's not expensive. Personally, I spent less than $25k on a DIY RV, and that included solar power and a new motorcycle. I wouldn't say that I'm happy - it's still harrowingly lonely. But I'm less unhappy than I was when I was working in a big city. There's something calming about nature, and the US is enormously beautiful. And I think that, ironically, there are a lot of people like me out there. People who feel disgusted with our current culture, who don't judge new acquaintances by their mutual friends list entries, and who are genuinely interested in improving the state of the world and the experiences of the people around us. But we have no way to connect, so we wander off and bide our time in the vain hope that someday we will find a world ready to accept us. Until then, there's really nothing to do but smell the roses. One thing I didn't see called out is how often you'll be without cell signal, but I've only skimmed the article so far. I'd recommend getting a satellite beacon if you decide to do this, if only so that you can reliably get weather reports and send messages in an emergency.

mdszy 7y ago
>There's no point in trying to settle down in a world where it is impossible to meet people or build communities. this attitude is exactly WHY it's so hard to meet people or build communities.
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  Well, personally I spent about 5 years trying in Seattle. Endless meetups, volunteering, local events, you name it. But without a Facebook presence, trying to make friends or date or build a life is like trying to make water flow uphill. There's only so long that you can try and so much that you can do before you give up in despair. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you cannot be part of a community without the participation of other people.
  - mdszy 7y ago
    I have lifelong friends who I've never used Facebook to communicate with. If you've tried this many times and keep failing maybe the problem is with you.
    - leggomylibro 7y ago
      Maybe it is me, but when did you meet those friends? I've tried to contort myself and my personality into just about every shape that I can imagine over the course of those years. I don't think that there's anything wrong with me, and I do my best to be kinder than is necessary, but here I am. So yes, maybe the problem is me. I hope not, but if it is and if I can't change that, then leaving society still seems like a sensible thing to do.
      - mdszy 7y ago
        There's a saying I like. "If one day, you meet an asshole - then you met an asshole. If one day, you meet a hundred assholes - then you're an asshole." A bit harsh, perhaps, but still relevant.
        leggomylibro 7y ago
        Yes, I think about that saying every day, and have for years. It is difficult.
        traveler1234 7y ago
        Yea but if you look around you and everyone seems to be antisocial to each other (removing yourself from the picture) you might be in the wrong place. If you can travel somewhere else and immediately people treat you differently than it's not you, it's the place.
    - racketracer 7y ago
      Savage AF
    - kingkawn 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jcroll 7y ago
  Agreed, it's terribly cynical
nautilus12 7y ago
Be the change you want to see. Build beautiful interpersonal landscapes to rival our natural ones.
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  Easier said than done - I can't force people to interact with me, and I wouldn't want to. So how do you create beautiful interpersonal landscapes which only involve one person?
deleted 7y ago
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shaunparker 7y ago
Do you have any recommendations for the satellite beacon? My brother is doing this in his RV and I’d love to get him one. Thanks.
- phonethrowaway 7y ago
  I have a Delorme Inreach. Highly recommended... Apparently Garmin bought them. https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/ https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  I use a Garmin inreach - the mini one is a little hard to use on its own because of the small monochrome display, but it pairs to your phone with bluetooth and has a nice companion app. Also, the EarthMate app has a nice mapping interface which shows things like topographic maps and major trails, and it lets you download maps ahead of time in varying levels of detail for offline use.
ryanmercer 7y ago
>And it's not expensive. Personally, I spent less than $25k That's quite expensive to a large percentage of the country. 19% of the country grosses less than that annually [1]. Van life, living in a THOW (tiny house on wheels) etc is very much a luxury in the vast majority of cases (probably why you tend to see a lot of CS/tech types with individual salaries 2-3x the median household income doing it). > it is impossible to meet people or build communities. That really just depends on what you choose to do with your free time. If you are at all religious, regularly attending religious services where you live is all but certain to give you the opportunity (unless you go to a 'mega' church). There are things like Freemasonry, Independent Order of Odd Fellows, CrossFit/barbell clubs/strongman facilities, organized bowling leagues, Toastmasters, LUGs (Lego User Groups - adult lego groups), vintage computer clubs, game stores that have regular tabletop and trading card game playing times, the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism - period accurate medieval reenactment), other living history groups, adult softball/basketball leagues, supper clubs, etc. [1] https://wallethacks.com/average-median-income-in-america/#Median-Household-Income-US-Census https://wallethacks.com/average-median-income-in-america/#Me...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bronco21016 7y ago
  Keep in mind that $25k for the van is for a home and transport. Where else can you get a home/transportation combo for that price? Sure there can be fees for places to park but the overall total cost to live has to be significantly lower than all of us in the rat race paying city rent or McMansion mortgages.
  - neaden 7y ago
    A lot of places? There is a pretty significant portion of the country where you can get a downpayment on a house for $10k and pick up a nice enough used car for a couple thousand. There are more options then living in an expensive city, a mcmansion, and a van.
    - 7y ago
nickthemagicman 7y ago
Beautiful analysis on the less tangible benefits of van life. The benefit of van life for me it was the fact that if you're not rich, you spend all your time simply surviving in this current economy and can never truly thrive and follow your dreams, whether that's meeting people, or chasing a hobby project, or working a lower paying job to make the world a better place. Your job is to just survive. For example: 30%+ of our income goes to taxes 20%-30%+ to rent + utilities 15% to student loans(if you have any). 10%+ (or way more if you're sick) to healthcare 5% to a car payment + insurance + gas After all of that you only get 20%ish of your paycheck? Then you have retirement to worry about because you can't rely on social security anymore. Slavery still exists it's just expanded to include every race. Van life at least frees you from that extra 20% plus it frees you from signing a 2 year lease obligation just to have a place to live. And in a job market that is chaotic you may have to move sooner than that so van life gives you the freedom to choose your life a lot better and is actually a lot more financially responsible.
- neaden 7y ago
  "Slavery still exists it's just expanded to include every race." This is a very tasteless comment. It's also just flat out wrong. For the vast majority of human history, and in many countries today, people had to work more than 40 hours a week just to supply themselves and their family with food, shelter, and clothing. We live in a time of immense wealth and leisure relative to the lives of most people.
  - Miner49er 7y ago
    The average American works more today then a medieval peasant. https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-more https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-m... We live in a time of immense wealth, but not leisure.
    - neaden 7y ago
      This is only true because the authors are trying to use a capitalist definition of work to a precaptialist society. There was a huge amount of time spent on household tasks like mending clothes, preparing food, doing repairs, spinning clothes etc. The article also talks about how peasants took frequent rests, but this is because they were doing extremely physically demanding work, not because they had a chill schedule. Edit: A great example is that in Mexico and the American Southwest one of a woman's traditional tasks was grinding corn by hand, which could take up to 5 hours for her families supply. Other areas of the world that ate grains and didn't have access to mills would have had to spend a similar amount of time.
somehnguy 7y ago
Yeahhh, this post reeks of 'I am better than everyone else' and also 'I do not understand why nobody wants to be my friend'. Maybe the two are related. Now I could be totally wrong, text communication can come off in an unintended way as you know.
deleted 7y ago
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scarecrowbob 7y ago
One of the good places that I have been has been recently is Indian Creek in Utah. There were a lot of folks living in vans in dispersed camping, just hanging out and climbing. I found it very easy to meet folks in that community. Specifically, I've found it easy to just walk up to a camp fire and introduce myself. Lots of folks are looking for partners to climb with. I love to climb, but there is definitely a side-benefit of being able to meet a bunch of people who have motivations to do similar things, and climbing lends itself well to dirt-bagging. I can't comment on other subcultures or sports. My experiences with musicians has been similar, though.
turtlebits 7y ago
Vanlife seems a little extreme lifestyle change. I think a good middle ground is to buy a cheap piece of land outside of the city, and putting a small/cheap structure on it. RV/Camper, converted shed (Tiny houses are nice, but $$$). Live off grid and the only cost you'd pay is property taxes.
- leggomylibro 7y ago
  Maybe, but you would still be tied to one place without any people around, and I can't imagine having to live like this without being able to run away. Personally, I'm sort of hoping for an immediately fatal motorcycle crash before I have to worry about going back to work, but I'll probably stick with renting if that doesn't pan out. In the meantime, there's an old joke that brings me comfort: A person is running from an angry bear when they stumble off a cliff and get snagged by a strawberry bush, which is in full bloom. Looking up, they see the bear watching them patiently. Looking down, they see a sheer cliff and a fatal drop with no handholds. Certain death above, certain death below, and the person won't survive long without water. What should they do? Answer: eat the strawberries.
lonelappde 7y ago
Gen X and Boomer hippies also enjoyed some van life. It's not new. Millennials didn't invent wanderlust.

mdszy 7y ago

>There's no point in trying to settle down in a world where it is impossible to meet people or build communities. this attitude is exactly WHY it's so hard to meet people or build communities.

leggomylibro 7y ago
Well, personally I spent about 5 years trying in Seattle. Endless meetups, volunteering, local events, you name it. But without a Facebook presence, trying to make friends or date or build a life is like trying to make water flow uphill. There's only so long that you can try and so much that you can do before you give up in despair. At some point, you have to acknowledge that you cannot be part of a community without the participation of other people.
- mdszy 7y ago
  I have lifelong friends who I've never used Facebook to communicate with. If you've tried this many times and keep failing maybe the problem is with you.
  - leggomylibro 7y ago
    Maybe it is me, but when did you meet those friends? I've tried to contort myself and my personality into just about every shape that I can imagine over the course of those years. I don't think that there's anything wrong with me, and I do my best to be kinder than is necessary, but here I am. So yes, maybe the problem is me. I hope not, but if it is and if I can't change that, then leaving society still seems like a sensible thing to do.
    - mdszy 7y ago
      There's a saying I like. "If one day, you meet an asshole - then you met an asshole. If one day, you meet a hundred assholes - then you're an asshole." A bit harsh, perhaps, but still relevant.
      - leggomylibro 7y ago
        Yes, I think about that saying every day, and have for years. It is difficult.
      - traveler1234 7y ago
        Yea but if you look around you and everyone seems to be antisocial to each other (removing yourself from the picture) you might be in the wrong place. If you can travel somewhere else and immediately people treat you differently than it's not you, it's the place.
  - racketracer 7y ago
    Savage AF
  - kingkawn 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jcroll 7y ago
Agreed, it's terribly cynical

nautilus12 7y ago

Be the change you want to see. Build beautiful interpersonal landscapes to rival our natural ones.

leggomylibro 7y ago
Easier said than done - I can't force people to interact with me, and I wouldn't want to. So how do you create beautiful interpersonal landscapes which only involve one person?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

shaunparker 7y ago

Do you have any recommendations for the satellite beacon? My brother is doing this in his RV and I’d love to get him one. Thanks.

phonethrowaway 7y ago
I have a Delorme Inreach. Highly recommended... Apparently Garmin bought them. https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/ https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/inreach/
leggomylibro 7y ago
I use a Garmin inreach - the mini one is a little hard to use on its own because of the small monochrome display, but it pairs to your phone with bluetooth and has a nice companion app. Also, the EarthMate app has a nice mapping interface which shows things like topographic maps and major trails, and it lets you download maps ahead of time in varying levels of detail for offline use.

ryanmercer 7y ago

>And it's not expensive. Personally, I spent less than $25k That's quite expensive to a large percentage of the country. 19% of the country grosses less than that annually [1]. Van life, living in a THOW (tiny house on wheels) etc is very much a luxury in the vast majority of cases (probably why you tend to see a lot of CS/tech types with individual salaries 2-3x the median household income doing it). > it is impossible to meet people or build communities. That really just depends on what you choose to do with your free time. If you are at all religious, regularly attending religious services where you live is all but certain to give you the opportunity (unless you go to a 'mega' church). There are things like Freemasonry, Independent Order of Odd Fellows, CrossFit/barbell clubs/strongman facilities, organized bowling leagues, Toastmasters, LUGs (Lego User Groups - adult lego groups), vintage computer clubs, game stores that have regular tabletop and trading card game playing times, the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism - period accurate medieval reenactment), other living history groups, adult softball/basketball leagues, supper clubs, etc. [1] https://wallethacks.com/average-median-income-in-america/#Median-Household-Income-US-Census https://wallethacks.com/average-median-income-in-america/#Me...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bronco21016 7y ago
Keep in mind that $25k for the van is for a home and transport. Where else can you get a home/transportation combo for that price? Sure there can be fees for places to park but the overall total cost to live has to be significantly lower than all of us in the rat race paying city rent or McMansion mortgages.
- neaden 7y ago
  A lot of places? There is a pretty significant portion of the country where you can get a downpayment on a house for $10k and pick up a nice enough used car for a couple thousand. There are more options then living in an expensive city, a mcmansion, and a van.
  - 7y ago

nickthemagicman 7y ago

Beautiful analysis on the less tangible benefits of van life. The benefit of van life for me it was the fact that if you're not rich, you spend all your time simply surviving in this current economy and can never truly thrive and follow your dreams, whether that's meeting people, or chasing a hobby project, or working a lower paying job to make the world a better place. Your job is to just survive. For example: 30%+ of our income goes to taxes 20%-30%+ to rent + utilities 15% to student loans(if you have any). 10%+ (or way more if you're sick) to healthcare 5% to a car payment + insurance + gas After all of that you only get 20%ish of your paycheck? Then you have retirement to worry about because you can't rely on social security anymore. Slavery still exists it's just expanded to include every race. Van life at least frees you from that extra 20% plus it frees you from signing a 2 year lease obligation just to have a place to live. And in a job market that is chaotic you may have to move sooner than that so van life gives you the freedom to choose your life a lot better and is actually a lot more financially responsible.

neaden 7y ago
"Slavery still exists it's just expanded to include every race." This is a very tasteless comment. It's also just flat out wrong. For the vast majority of human history, and in many countries today, people had to work more than 40 hours a week just to supply themselves and their family with food, shelter, and clothing. We live in a time of immense wealth and leisure relative to the lives of most people.
- Miner49er 7y ago
  The average American works more today then a medieval peasant. https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-more https://allthatsinteresting.com/medieval-peasants-vacation-m... We live in a time of immense wealth, but not leisure.
  - neaden 7y ago
    This is only true because the authors are trying to use a capitalist definition of work to a precaptialist society. There was a huge amount of time spent on household tasks like mending clothes, preparing food, doing repairs, spinning clothes etc. The article also talks about how peasants took frequent rests, but this is because they were doing extremely physically demanding work, not because they had a chill schedule. Edit: A great example is that in Mexico and the American Southwest one of a woman's traditional tasks was grinding corn by hand, which could take up to 5 hours for her families supply. Other areas of the world that ate grains and didn't have access to mills would have had to spend a similar amount of time.

somehnguy 7y ago

Yeahhh, this post reeks of 'I am better than everyone else' and also 'I do not understand why nobody wants to be my friend'. Maybe the two are related. Now I could be totally wrong, text communication can come off in an unintended way as you know.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

scarecrowbob 7y ago

One of the good places that I have been has been recently is Indian Creek in Utah. There were a lot of folks living in vans in dispersed camping, just hanging out and climbing. I found it very easy to meet folks in that community. Specifically, I've found it easy to just walk up to a camp fire and introduce myself. Lots of folks are looking for partners to climb with. I love to climb, but there is definitely a side-benefit of being able to meet a bunch of people who have motivations to do similar things, and climbing lends itself well to dirt-bagging. I can't comment on other subcultures or sports. My experiences with musicians has been similar, though.

turtlebits 7y ago

Vanlife seems a little extreme lifestyle change. I think a good middle ground is to buy a cheap piece of land outside of the city, and putting a small/cheap structure on it. RV/Camper, converted shed (Tiny houses are nice, but $$$). Live off grid and the only cost you'd pay is property taxes.

leggomylibro 7y ago
Maybe, but you would still be tied to one place without any people around, and I can't imagine having to live like this without being able to run away. Personally, I'm sort of hoping for an immediately fatal motorcycle crash before I have to worry about going back to work, but I'll probably stick with renting if that doesn't pan out. In the meantime, there's an old joke that brings me comfort: A person is running from an angry bear when they stumble off a cliff and get snagged by a strawberry bush, which is in full bloom. Looking up, they see the bear watching them patiently. Looking down, they see a sheer cliff and a fatal drop with no handholds. Certain death above, certain death below, and the person won't survive long without water. What should they do? Answer: eat the strawberries.

lonelappde 7y ago

Gen X and Boomer hippies also enjoyed some van life. It's not new. Millennials didn't invent wanderlust.