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I agree with the notion of learning from your mistakes, but it's so disingenuous I'd call it bullshit to say it's not a failure. The startup failed. That does

I agree with the notion of learning from your mistakes, but it's so disingenuous I'd call it bullshit to say it's not a failure. The startup failed. That doesn't mean you're a failure. But don't sugarcoat what happened for the sake of your feelings. If you can't even admit it's a failure, you're not likely to learn from your failures. Yes, I realize there is a lot of semantics in my point, but I just fucking hate sanitizing communication. Be direct. Be transparent. Say what you mean. Don't turn it into some feel-good what-a-wonderful-journey bullshit.

asdfman123 7y ago
I guess you could rewrite it to say "just because you fail doesn't mean you're a failure" and point out that you're probably going to fail a few times while learning, and that's healthy.
Isamu 7y ago
> bullshit to say it's not a failure So you agree with the article? Because the words "fail" and "failure" appear some 31 times. Same discussion with the recent Space-X failure during a pressurization test. Arguments over the word "failure". What is really being argued is what it means to fail. To many, it means: someone is incompetent. Heads should roll. There should never be any failures ever if everyone is doing their jobs. This is a naive view. So people get upset over the use of the term, instead of explaining what they want to convey.
kick 7y ago
Is it a failure? "Had fun, blew a whole load of VC money!" doesn't sound like a bad time to me, personally, a person who is fully aware that statement is going to reflect poorly on my record.
- dmarlow 7y ago
  So that was the goal then?
  - naringas 7y ago
    live well another day?
- deleted 7y ago
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staticassertion 7y ago
I think you're being overly cynical, and thereby missing the point, which is that we conflate all 'kinds' of failures together. When you decide to spend your time and money on something like a company you learn very quickly to disambiguate "I failed to do X, but I learned Y, and I can keep going" from "I have failed to do the things I set out to do, fundamentally, and I am defeated". And you might imagine the latter is "Your company failed" but it probably isn't. My goal isn't to start a company, it's to do good work and gain experience in this world, work with new people, etc, and if the company goes under that is a very different kind of failure. Really, the only failure scenario, for me personally, would be to give up.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  > My goal isn't to start a company, it's to do good work and gain experience in this world, work with new people, etc, and if the company goes under that is a very different kind of failure. Really, the only failure scenario, for me personally, would be to give up. I never said anything about letting a failure define you - in fact I said the opposite and that you should learn from your mistakes. You seem to think the only person that matters when your company fails is you. Your investors certainly won't be happy about it. I also don't think many of your employees who just lost their jobs will want to celebrate your learning experience with you. Your company's failure doesn't just impact you, which is why "what a remarkable journey!" blog posts can come across as tone deaf. I think you're viewing this from the eyes of an employee, and not a founder. There are very different rules for founders and employees.
  - staticassertion 7y ago
    You've completely missed my point. I will reiterate: * Conflating all types of failures is problematic and something you must learn to avoid if you start a company * Failure is more about larger goals than the steps to get there So, I have no investors or employees, and my goals are my own right now. Eventually that may change, and I will have to change my goals to account for that. I'm not sure why I'd be viewing this from the eyes of an employee as I am a founder.

asdfman123 7y ago

I guess you could rewrite it to say "just because you fail doesn't mean you're a failure" and point out that you're probably going to fail a few times while learning, and that's healthy.

Isamu 7y ago

> bullshit to say it's not a failure So you agree with the article? Because the words "fail" and "failure" appear some 31 times. Same discussion with the recent Space-X failure during a pressurization test. Arguments over the word "failure". What is really being argued is what it means to fail. To many, it means: someone is incompetent. Heads should roll. There should never be any failures ever if everyone is doing their jobs. This is a naive view. So people get upset over the use of the term, instead of explaining what they want to convey.

kick 7y ago

Is it a failure? "Had fun, blew a whole load of VC money!" doesn't sound like a bad time to me, personally, a person who is fully aware that statement is going to reflect poorly on my record.

dmarlow 7y ago
So that was the goal then?
- naringas 7y ago
  live well another day?
deleted 7y ago
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staticassertion 7y ago

I think you're being overly cynical, and thereby missing the point, which is that we conflate all 'kinds' of failures together. When you decide to spend your time and money on something like a company you learn very quickly to disambiguate "I failed to do X, but I learned Y, and I can keep going" from "I have failed to do the things I set out to do, fundamentally, and I am defeated". And you might imagine the latter is "Your company failed" but it probably isn't. My goal isn't to start a company, it's to do good work and gain experience in this world, work with new people, etc, and if the company goes under that is a very different kind of failure. Really, the only failure scenario, for me personally, would be to give up.

OnlineGladiator 7y ago
> My goal isn't to start a company, it's to do good work and gain experience in this world, work with new people, etc, and if the company goes under that is a very different kind of failure. Really, the only failure scenario, for me personally, would be to give up. I never said anything about letting a failure define you - in fact I said the opposite and that you should learn from your mistakes. You seem to think the only person that matters when your company fails is you. Your investors certainly won't be happy about it. I also don't think many of your employees who just lost their jobs will want to celebrate your learning experience with you. Your company's failure doesn't just impact you, which is why "what a remarkable journey!" blog posts can come across as tone deaf. I think you're viewing this from the eyes of an employee, and not a founder. There are very different rules for founders and employees.
- staticassertion 7y ago
  You've completely missed my point. I will reiterate: * Conflating all types of failures is problematic and something you must learn to avoid if you start a company * Failure is more about larger goals than the steps to get there So, I have no investors or employees, and my goals are my own right now. Eventually that may change, and I will have to change my goals to account for that. I'm not sure why I'd be viewing this from the eyes of an employee as I am a founder.