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It’s amazing how this phenomenon has been adapted into medical technology. When my son was born he wasn’t breathing properly and his blood oxygen levels dropped

It’s amazing how this phenomenon has been adapted into medical technology. When my son was born he wasn’t breathing properly and his blood oxygen levels dropped to critical levels. He was rushed to hospital and the first thing they did was cool him to 34c to reduce the risk of brain damage. He made a full recovery. I dread to think what would have happened without the cooling.

zozbot234 7y ago
Why not cool the patient before rushing them to hospital, if the technique is so widely applicable? It could easily be made a standard feature of emergency medical services.
- TomMarius 7y ago
  Maybe the training of the emergency crew is not sufficient?
  - jfoster 7y ago
    Why not improve the training?
    - TomMarius 7y ago
      Sure, I don't know, I was asking a question. Maybe the full medicine degree would be required for that? I have no idea, that's why I asked.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- tapland 7y ago
  Because it's hard. I helped out at a company among many that are trying to develop a system that would allow you to do this in ambulance and they started testing prototypes 10 years ago and have yet to progress from that stage.
  - sho_hn 7y ago
    Can you talk about the problems involved?
  - JshWright 7y ago
    It's not that hard... you just throw some ice packs in the groin and armpits. You won't get them fully into the TTM range in a 20 minute transport, but you can start the process.
    - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
      Sticking ice in proximity to major arteries is going to be a lot less effective without a beating heart to circulate all that newly cold blood.
      - JshWright 7y ago
        This procedure is initiated after the heart has been restarted[1]. You're absolutely correct that it's pointless to do it earlier, especially since the far more important thing is getting the heart beating again. [1] This is known as "targeted temperature management" (TTM), and is part of the standard post-ROSC (return of spontaneous circulation) algorithm in ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support), if you're looking for terms to Google.
      - agumonkey 7y ago
        the cold won't distribute at all ?
        dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        It will but much more slowly. Think of cooling the blood as using the surface area of the arteries and veins as a heat sink to cool the body. Without that blood moving your next best heat sink is the skin so start piling on the ice.
        JshWright 7y ago
- hprotagonist 7y ago
  >easily seems like a bold claim to me.
  - nickthemagicman 7y ago
    What would be even easier is putting the whole hospital inside the ambulance then you don't have to actually take the patient anywhere.
    - cdolan 7y ago
      I appreciate the sarcasm haha
    - ryanmercer 7y ago
      You'd have to make it bigger on the inside.
- yardie 7y ago
  > easily Because creating a cooling system to use on a body with a central nervous system fighting to keep it warm is just like central HVAC.
  - zozbot234 7y ago
    > Because creating a cooling system to use on a body with a central nervous system fighting to keep it warm And yet, something as simple as ice cold water seems to work fine for this. You can cool e.g. even a heatstroke victim pretty quickly, without worrying too much about internal thermoregulation.
    - yardie 7y ago
      > a central nervous system fighting to keep it warm A heat stroke victim the body is fighting to cool itself and failing. You assist. That part is easy. Getting the body to do the opposite of what you want is the hard part. ie. Cool down below basal body temperature, stop breathing to perform thoracic surgery.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- JshWright 7y ago
  The process is called "targeted temperature management" and it's pretty common in EMS protocols. It's a part of the standard cardiac arrest "algorithm". https://acls-algorithms.com/post-cardiac-arrest-care/ https://acls-algorithms.com/post-cardiac-arrest-care/
- slumdev 7y ago
  There are a lot of trials involving prehospital cooling. Some groups focus on trying to cool the entire body by putting ice packs in areas of the body with lots of blood flow near the surface. Others focus on intranasal methods for cooling just the brain. It's exciting stuff, but it's definitely not widespread.
thrwn_frthr_awy 7y ago
Same thing happened when my son was born and he had complications resulting in loss of blood to the brain for a significant amount of time. We were told to expect mild to moderate brain damage while we just had to sit and wait as they basically did nothing but keep him cooled for about three days. It's been three years now and he very smart and extremely athletic. The doctors said the cooling is what the difference. His complications happened at the hospital so he was able to be cooled immediately.

zozbot234 7y ago

Why not cool the patient before rushing them to hospital, if the technique is so widely applicable? It could easily be made a standard feature of emergency medical services.

TomMarius 7y ago
Maybe the training of the emergency crew is not sufficient?
- jfoster 7y ago
  Why not improve the training?
  - TomMarius 7y ago
    Sure, I don't know, I was asking a question. Maybe the full medicine degree would be required for that? I have no idea, that's why I asked.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
tapland 7y ago
Because it's hard. I helped out at a company among many that are trying to develop a system that would allow you to do this in ambulance and they started testing prototypes 10 years ago and have yet to progress from that stage.
- sho_hn 7y ago
  Can you talk about the problems involved?
- JshWright 7y ago
  It's not that hard... you just throw some ice packs in the groin and armpits. You won't get them fully into the TTM range in a 20 minute transport, but you can start the process.
  - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    Sticking ice in proximity to major arteries is going to be a lot less effective without a beating heart to circulate all that newly cold blood.
    - JshWright 7y ago
      This procedure is initiated after the heart has been restarted[1]. You're absolutely correct that it's pointless to do it earlier, especially since the far more important thing is getting the heart beating again. [1] This is known as "targeted temperature management" (TTM), and is part of the standard post-ROSC (return of spontaneous circulation) algorithm in ACLS (Advanced Cardiac Life Support), if you're looking for terms to Google.
    - agumonkey 7y ago
      the cold won't distribute at all ?
      - dsfyu404ed 7y ago
        It will but much more slowly. Think of cooling the blood as using the surface area of the arteries and veins as a heat sink to cool the body. Without that blood moving your next best heat sink is the skin so start piling on the ice.
        JshWright 7y ago
hprotagonist 7y ago
>easily seems like a bold claim to me.
- nickthemagicman 7y ago
  What would be even easier is putting the whole hospital inside the ambulance then you don't have to actually take the patient anywhere.
  - cdolan 7y ago
    I appreciate the sarcasm haha
  - ryanmercer 7y ago
    You'd have to make it bigger on the inside.
yardie 7y ago
> easily Because creating a cooling system to use on a body with a central nervous system fighting to keep it warm is just like central HVAC.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  > Because creating a cooling system to use on a body with a central nervous system fighting to keep it warm And yet, something as simple as ice cold water seems to work fine for this. You can cool e.g. even a heatstroke victim pretty quickly, without worrying too much about internal thermoregulation.
  - yardie 7y ago
    > a central nervous system fighting to keep it warm A heat stroke victim the body is fighting to cool itself and failing. You assist. That part is easy. Getting the body to do the opposite of what you want is the hard part. ie. Cool down below basal body temperature, stop breathing to perform thoracic surgery.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
JshWright 7y ago
The process is called "targeted temperature management" and it's pretty common in EMS protocols. It's a part of the standard cardiac arrest "algorithm". https://acls-algorithms.com/post-cardiac-arrest-care/ https://acls-algorithms.com/post-cardiac-arrest-care/
slumdev 7y ago
There are a lot of trials involving prehospital cooling. Some groups focus on trying to cool the entire body by putting ice packs in areas of the body with lots of blood flow near the surface. Others focus on intranasal methods for cooling just the brain. It's exciting stuff, but it's definitely not widespread.

thrwn_frthr_awy 7y ago

Same thing happened when my son was born and he had complications resulting in loss of blood to the brain for a significant amount of time. We were told to expect mild to moderate brain damage while we just had to sit and wait as they basically did nothing but keep him cooled for about three days. It's been three years now and he very smart and extremely athletic. The doctors said the cooling is what the difference. His complications happened at the hospital so he was able to be cooled immediately.