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You don't have to, asp.net mvc still works. WPF, .. I think the big changes between .net framework and . Net Core weren't that big for a project. And it got a

You don't have to, asp.net mvc still works. WPF, .. I think the big changes between .net framework and . Net Core weren't that big for a project. And it got a lot faster.

pjmlp 7y ago
There are quite a few re-writes required for .NET Core migrations, hence why many enterprises are holding on to .NET Framework.
- arethuza 7y ago
  Doesn't that happen with any toolset though - when I used Java (a long time ago) I remember a lot of similar complaints when new version were introduced. And look at the fuss around Python 2 and 3. Are there any popular application programming platforms that are widely used that haven't evolved fairly rapidly and caused a lot of complaints along the way?
  - hvidgaard 7y ago
    All of this happened within less than 2 years to the point where you had to do extensive rewriting for just starting your old code. Python 2 was mostly stable 8 years, and you could continue to run Python 2. Java as far as I know (it's not a stack I regularly work in) rarely require rewrite because a new version comes out.
    - Clubber 7y ago
      I suspect it's because it's new and they are still flushing out how they want the overall framework to "feel." In my experience, this is more the norm than the anomaly. IIRC, Delphi would create breaking changes nearly every release. It's two philosophies: 1. Backwards compatibility is king, 2. The best framework possible is king. #1, over time, can lead to a hot mess.
- scarface74 7y ago
  That’s true for anything. There are still VB6 maintenance jobs popping up every now and then.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Indeed, hence why it is a fallacy to think everyone is running to deliver .NET Core applications. I am yet to get a RFP that even mentions it.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Well how much does your anecdotal experience really say about the broad adoption of .Net Core? I know a lot of companies that really want to run away from a dependency on Windows - especially in cloud environments. Every time you introduce Windows into the mix it costs more for licenses and resources. This is coming from someone who has exclusively developed and deployed to Windows servers until 2 years ago and even now my only Linux deployments are Lambda and Docker.
      - pjmlp 7y ago
        Those RFP are coming from either DAX or Fortune 500 companies, none of them eager to rewrite WCF into gRPC, rewrite EF 6 stuff with unavailable features on Core, buy new licenses for 3rd party dependencies or buy replacements with the respective rewrite and so on.
        scarface74 7y ago
        And again your anecdotal experiences doesn’t say much about the broader market. I see plenty of “Fortune 500” companies trying to find a migration path from .Net Framework and Windows. Heck even MS is abandoning .Net Framework.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        My anecdotal experiences are as good as yours. Better pay attention to MS conferences then, they have stressed multiple times that VS is going to stay .NET Framework and how they are commited to keep it as long as there is Windows. And at .NET Core 3.0 release conference it was visible in multiple occasions how they are fighting the re-writing fatige from many enterprises.
dustinmoris 7y ago
I'm not talking about the changes between .NET and .NET Core. As far as I'm concerned .NET doesn't exist to me anymore and it's not even worth talking about. I am angry that .NET Core keeps changing faster than Kim Kardashian changes her outfits. First they focused on making .NET Core all about ASP.NET with a clear focus on MVC and making everything super granular. Then they didn't like how granular it was and started to put lots of featurs into smaller pacakges again. Then they keep re-inventing things. First introduce Newtonsoft Json into the default .NET Core stack. Then rewrite everything. The webhost model keeps constnantly changing. The ASP.NET Core team now is realising that people hate MVC and they are splitting out more features from MVC into more basic ASP.NET Core features, which is why routing has completely changed again with endpoint routing. Honestly nothing is constant, not even for 6 months. Every version of .NET Core almost requires a developer to completely rewrite their Startup.cs class. It's just ridiculous. The reason for all of this is old MSFT thinking. It's not bloody rocket science, people have been saying it for years that they don't want to be forced into MVC, they want things to be more lightweight, bla bla bla. But obviously MSFT cares more about making a shit hello world demo at BUILD and therefore they first must hack together ASP.NET Core which was mostly just about MVC before being allowed to build the core platform to something that is actually useful to others. They'll constantly keep changing the fundamentals, moving the carpet under developers feet and distracting businesses with stupid useless excercises or rewriting shit instead of just creating a stable base platform on which people can freely build applications and actually focus on their own apps.
- Roonerelli 7y ago
  that is quite a rant for someone who feels its not even worth talking about
  - Nelkins 7y ago
    I think he meant specifically .NET framework, the older .NET runtime.
- jolux 7y ago
  Newtonsoft.Json was the default JSON parser in ASP.NET Core for a bit, but that’s changed with .NET Core 3’s System.Text.Json. Newtonsoft was never tied to .NET Core itself directly.

You don't have to, asp.net mvc still works. WPF, .. I think the big changes between .net framework and . Net Core weren't that big for a project. And it got a lot faster.

pjmlp 7y ago

There are quite a few re-writes required for .NET Core migrations, hence why many enterprises are holding on to .NET Framework.

arethuza 7y ago
Doesn't that happen with any toolset though - when I used Java (a long time ago) I remember a lot of similar complaints when new version were introduced. And look at the fuss around Python 2 and 3. Are there any popular application programming platforms that are widely used that haven't evolved fairly rapidly and caused a lot of complaints along the way?
- hvidgaard 7y ago
  All of this happened within less than 2 years to the point where you had to do extensive rewriting for just starting your old code. Python 2 was mostly stable 8 years, and you could continue to run Python 2. Java as far as I know (it's not a stack I regularly work in) rarely require rewrite because a new version comes out.
  - Clubber 7y ago
    I suspect it's because it's new and they are still flushing out how they want the overall framework to "feel." In my experience, this is more the norm than the anomaly. IIRC, Delphi would create breaking changes nearly every release. It's two philosophies: 1. Backwards compatibility is king, 2. The best framework possible is king. #1, over time, can lead to a hot mess.
scarface74 7y ago
That’s true for anything. There are still VB6 maintenance jobs popping up every now and then.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Indeed, hence why it is a fallacy to think everyone is running to deliver .NET Core applications. I am yet to get a RFP that even mentions it.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Well how much does your anecdotal experience really say about the broad adoption of .Net Core? I know a lot of companies that really want to run away from a dependency on Windows - especially in cloud environments. Every time you introduce Windows into the mix it costs more for licenses and resources. This is coming from someone who has exclusively developed and deployed to Windows servers until 2 years ago and even now my only Linux deployments are Lambda and Docker.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Those RFP are coming from either DAX or Fortune 500 companies, none of them eager to rewrite WCF into gRPC, rewrite EF 6 stuff with unavailable features on Core, buy new licenses for 3rd party dependencies or buy replacements with the respective rewrite and so on.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        And again your anecdotal experiences doesn’t say much about the broader market. I see plenty of “Fortune 500” companies trying to find a migration path from .Net Framework and Windows. Heck even MS is abandoning .Net Framework.
        pjmlp 7y ago
        My anecdotal experiences are as good as yours. Better pay attention to MS conferences then, they have stressed multiple times that VS is going to stay .NET Framework and how they are commited to keep it as long as there is Windows. And at .NET Core 3.0 release conference it was visible in multiple occasions how they are fighting the re-writing fatige from many enterprises.

dustinmoris 7y ago

I'm not talking about the changes between .NET and .NET Core. As far as I'm concerned .NET doesn't exist to me anymore and it's not even worth talking about. I am angry that .NET Core keeps changing faster than Kim Kardashian changes her outfits. First they focused on making .NET Core all about ASP.NET with a clear focus on MVC and making everything super granular. Then they didn't like how granular it was and started to put lots of featurs into smaller pacakges again. Then they keep re-inventing things. First introduce Newtonsoft Json into the default .NET Core stack. Then rewrite everything. The webhost model keeps constnantly changing. The ASP.NET Core team now is realising that people hate MVC and they are splitting out more features from MVC into more basic ASP.NET Core features, which is why routing has completely changed again with endpoint routing. Honestly nothing is constant, not even for 6 months. Every version of .NET Core almost requires a developer to completely rewrite their Startup.cs class. It's just ridiculous. The reason for all of this is old MSFT thinking. It's not bloody rocket science, people have been saying it for years that they don't want to be forced into MVC, they want things to be more lightweight, bla bla bla. But obviously MSFT cares more about making a shit hello world demo at BUILD and therefore they first must hack together ASP.NET Core which was mostly just about MVC before being allowed to build the core platform to something that is actually useful to others. They'll constantly keep changing the fundamentals, moving the carpet under developers feet and distracting businesses with stupid useless excercises or rewriting shit instead of just creating a stable base platform on which people can freely build applications and actually focus on their own apps.

Roonerelli 7y ago
that is quite a rant for someone who feels its not even worth talking about
- Nelkins 7y ago
  I think he meant specifically .NET framework, the older .NET runtime.
jolux 7y ago
Newtonsoft.Json was the default JSON parser in ASP.NET Core for a bit, but that’s changed with .NET Core 3’s System.Text.Json. Newtonsoft was never tied to .NET Core itself directly.