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"people being shipped off in train cars reminiscent of pre-WWII photos that I have only learned about in school." There is absolutely no corroborated evidence

"people being shipped off in train cars reminiscent of pre-WWII photos that I have only learned about in school." There is absolutely no corroborated evidence whatsoever that this happened. Just like the alleged rapes. I'm not saying that these things did not happen, but absolutely no credible evidence on these claims up until now.

MagnumOpus 7y ago
> absolutely no corroborated evidence There is video and photo evidence from multiple sources on Twitter. There have been extensive reports of victims like British consulate worker Simon Cheng being abducted to the mainland and being tortured. Obviously there wont be any "corroboration" from the PRC state security agency or police...
- battleangle 7y ago
  "There have been extensive reports of victims like British consulate worker Simon Cheng being abducted to the mainland and being tortured." Did you even see his interview with the BBC? Legally would not say anything about his hiring of prostitutes. No medical evience of the torture he claimed. The only hard evidence that was provided were CCTV tapes of him going into local massage joint. You would think that if he didn't obtain the services of sex workers he would come out and say it. Interesting that the British also let him go. I've seen those videos. You have to be kidding if that's sufficient evidence to say they are being shipped off to Chinese black camps. As for the alleged rapes - the evidence is even more lacking. The primary source used is a facebook account using a pseudonym who claims he's an emergency doctor who then says he "swears" that he's telling the truth. Everyone needs to be held to a basic standard of logic and scrutiny, not a double standard simply because one might agree with the ideals of a group. There are numerous ludicrous claims on the government and police side. But the same stands for protesters as well.
  - Chris2048 7y ago
    > The only hard evidence that was provided were CCTV tapes of him going into local massage joint provided by who? Would Chinese authorities provide evidence against themselves?
  - throwaway1997 7y ago
    That massage joint is quite popular with HK locals. We cross the border and get hotpot and cheap (legitimate) massages. I've been there for a few times. Most of the masseuses are middle aged men and women.
- idlewords 7y ago
  No, there isn't. Look at https://twitter.com/osinthk https://twitter.com/osinthk, they do a really good job getting to the bottom of this stuff. Cheng was not abducted to the mainland; he was arrested on the mainland side of the boundary crossing at the high-speed rail station in Kowloon, coming back from Shenzhen. The fact that there's a border crossing in downtown Hong Kong is its own issue, but his case can't be called an abduction (unlike the case of the booksellers a few years ago). Anyway, please stop spreading falsehoods, there's enough of that going around.
  - tremon 7y ago
    So, your argument that it wasn't an abduction, is because he wasn't taken from Hong Kong, but from Chinese soil?
    - yorwba 7y ago
      The claim upstream for which there's no evidence: > "people being shipped off in train cars reminiscent of pre-WWII photos that I have only learned about in school." There's a difference between one person getting arrested and mass deportation. One should be able to criticize the former without falsely claiming that it's the latter.
    - idlewords 7y ago
      Correct, he was detained on the mainland side of a boundary crossing.
  - verall 7y ago
    This is correct and I appreciate that but even though he was on the chinese side of west kowloon hsr many would still consider it something of an abduction. Even clarifying to people he hadn't made it across the border yet, it still feels different than if he was picked up in Shenzhen.

MagnumOpus 7y ago

> absolutely no corroborated evidence There is video and photo evidence from multiple sources on Twitter. There have been extensive reports of victims like British consulate worker Simon Cheng being abducted to the mainland and being tortured. Obviously there wont be any "corroboration" from the PRC state security agency or police...

battleangle 7y ago
"There have been extensive reports of victims like British consulate worker Simon Cheng being abducted to the mainland and being tortured." Did you even see his interview with the BBC? Legally would not say anything about his hiring of prostitutes. No medical evience of the torture he claimed. The only hard evidence that was provided were CCTV tapes of him going into local massage joint. You would think that if he didn't obtain the services of sex workers he would come out and say it. Interesting that the British also let him go. I've seen those videos. You have to be kidding if that's sufficient evidence to say they are being shipped off to Chinese black camps. As for the alleged rapes - the evidence is even more lacking. The primary source used is a facebook account using a pseudonym who claims he's an emergency doctor who then says he "swears" that he's telling the truth. Everyone needs to be held to a basic standard of logic and scrutiny, not a double standard simply because one might agree with the ideals of a group. There are numerous ludicrous claims on the government and police side. But the same stands for protesters as well.
- Chris2048 7y ago
  > The only hard evidence that was provided were CCTV tapes of him going into local massage joint provided by who? Would Chinese authorities provide evidence against themselves?
- throwaway1997 7y ago
  That massage joint is quite popular with HK locals. We cross the border and get hotpot and cheap (legitimate) massages. I've been there for a few times. Most of the masseuses are middle aged men and women.
idlewords 7y ago
No, there isn't. Look at https://twitter.com/osinthk https://twitter.com/osinthk, they do a really good job getting to the bottom of this stuff. Cheng was not abducted to the mainland; he was arrested on the mainland side of the boundary crossing at the high-speed rail station in Kowloon, coming back from Shenzhen. The fact that there's a border crossing in downtown Hong Kong is its own issue, but his case can't be called an abduction (unlike the case of the booksellers a few years ago). Anyway, please stop spreading falsehoods, there's enough of that going around.
- tremon 7y ago
  So, your argument that it wasn't an abduction, is because he wasn't taken from Hong Kong, but from Chinese soil?
  - yorwba 7y ago
    The claim upstream for which there's no evidence: > "people being shipped off in train cars reminiscent of pre-WWII photos that I have only learned about in school." There's a difference between one person getting arrested and mass deportation. One should be able to criticize the former without falsely claiming that it's the latter.
  - idlewords 7y ago
    Correct, he was detained on the mainland side of a boundary crossing.
- verall 7y ago
  This is correct and I appreciate that but even though he was on the chinese side of west kowloon hsr many would still consider it something of an abduction. Even clarifying to people he hadn't made it across the border yet, it still feels different than if he was picked up in Shenzhen.