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If the Human Brain Were So Simple That We Could Understand It, We Would Be So Simple That We Couldn’t
by bblpeter 7y ago
If the Human Brain Were So Simple That We Could Understand It, We Would Be So Simple That We Couldn’t
- gibatronic 7y agoYes.
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y agoI personally don't think so. A computer could simulate / emulate itself, for example.
- bildung 7y ago1. We make a computer emulate itself, 2. Computers, compared to us, are of trivial complexity.
- zwkrt 7y agoA computer cannot emulate itself, I can be programmed by humans to emulate itself. I.e., no introspection was involved in the part of the computer.
- bblpeter 7y agoSure but then a computer doesn’t understand its own simulation so it’s apples and oranges
- mannykannot 7y agoWe have had some success in understanding all sorts of phenomena that are too complex to explain in all their detail: we have a useful understanding of the meteorology of snowstorms, for example, even though we cannot give an accounting for the exact shape of every single snowflake. You have given us no reason to be sure that an understanding of this form cannot be achieved for consciousness. To anticipate one possible reply: self-referentiality (our mind studying itself) is not self-evidently a barrier, as one mind can study another.
- ghjyui 7y agoThat's easy to disprove. A calculator isn't sophisticated enough to simulate itself, but a modern computer can perfectly simulate itself.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago> That's easy to disprove. A calculator isn't sophisticated enough to simulate itself, but a modern computer can perfectly simulate itself. What you say is pretty obviously false: a computer with finite memory cannot simulate itself in a general case because that would require more memory than it actually has or a compression algorithm that's effective on random data, because its memory would need to contain the emulation program plus a full memory image. Computers with infinite memory do not exist and random data is not compressible, therefore modern computers cannot perfectly simulate themselves. QED.
- ghjyui 7y agoHow is random memory relevant here? Today we can run entire Linux in a web page and we can surely run a simulation of IBM PC.
- CharlesColeman 7y ago> How is random memory relevant here? Because memory can be filled with random data, so that's a case that needs to be handled if a computer is to "perfectly simulate itself." >> That's easy to disprove. A calculator isn't sophisticated enough to simulate itself, but a modern computer can perfectly simulate itself. > Today we can run entire Linux in a web page and we can surely run a simulation of IBM PC. You said "a modern computer can perfectly simulate itself." If you think "running Linux in a web page" is an example of that, I don't think you understood your initial statement. A modern computer can simulate a less-capable version of itself, but it cannot "perfectly simulate itself," as I showed in my comment. It's not a good look to come in with an "easy disproof" that itself contains a pretty obvious falsehood. Also I'd wager your implicit statement that the OP's "to understand" is encompassed by your "to simulate" would be generally considered pretty controversial, at a minimum.