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The Hong Kong situation is much more complicated than mainstream media outside Hong Kong would like the world to believe, but that goes without saying. The iss

The Hong Kong situation is much more complicated than mainstream media outside Hong Kong would like the world to believe, but that goes without saying. The issue with the current HK government at the end of the day is that Carrie Lam is a second rate administrator and is wildly unqualified for handling the current situation in HK. Worse yet, she has one of the worst cabinets / teams ever assembled (you would need to be familiar with local HK politics to know this). In other words, HK couldn't have had a worse group to lead the city at this point in time. Having said that, Carrie is completely reliant on the police force at this stage. There is no way she agrees to an independent inquiry or any major moves against the police. At least not right now. I'd say that the independent inquriy may be something that can be compromised on at some point. But universal suffrage is out of the question, and demands 3 and 4 would never be accepted by the rest of Hong Kong nor would any reasonable person accept it given what has taken place since the original protests. In fact one of the key issues is that "the protest" isn't just one unified movement that has been moving forward since its inception.

adaml_623 7y ago
Interesting to me to summarise the talking points being pushed by this battleangle sock puppet account: * Issues in HK are internal to HK. Caused by HK population and HK administrators and HK police * There is no influence by the CCP on HK issues * The protest in HK is asking for unreasonable things and isn't united. * There is no evidence of people being deported out of HK or assaulted by government forces from outside HK. Also, as you would expect, personal attacks are being aimed at witnesses of events that contradict this story. And doubts are cast at video evidence. It's pretty clear that there is an attempt to paint a disconnect between HK China and Mainland China
- jacobush 7y ago
  I don't know, the propaganda accounts are usually much more blunt. This one has nuanced words. Painting Carrie Lam as relying on the police and force etc.
- battleangle 7y ago
  As usual, rather than offer actual counterpoints, you resort to ad hominem attacks and complete misrepresentation of what I stated. - nowhere did I state issues in HK are internal to HK only. There's obvious influence by interested parties outside of HK as well. - HK is under the CCP. Of course there's influence. I never stated this either. I stated that the influence is much less than what media would like you to belive. - I specifically stated that 2 of the demands are unreasonable, and a third will never be tolerated by the CCP. The protest movement certainly isn't a united cause for Hong Kong as a whole. That's what I stated. Even in the recent local elections the pro-protest candidates garnered on average less than 60% of the votes despite record turn out on their side. - There indeed is no hard and credible evidence that people are being deported out of HK into China. That's what I stated. I did not state that none have been assaulted by government forces. " personal attacks are being aimed at witnesses of events that contradict this story" umm...what personal attacks? Do you even know that the evidence of an emergency doctor saying the rapes occurred is by a "Dr. Ray" on Facebook? He also wrote in Chinese that his evidence is that "if he is lying, may the people and heavens judge him". Unfortunately most people buying into the claim don't read Chinese. Now that I've pointed out your completely unbased claims and obvious disingenuity and lack of integrity, perhaps you want to provide evidence of claims to the contrary rather than your illogical rabble. *yes I'm a brand new account. I usually only read posts here, but I'm from HK and it's an issue close to heart. I'm sick of the misrepresentation of what's actually happening being reinforced by people who have very little knowledge of Hong Kong if they have even ever visited or lived there at all.
  - adaml_623 7y ago
    I don't think you're a real person so I'm unsure as to how to respond to the accusation of an ad hominem attack. The actions of a new participant in an online community can often be judged by what new information they contribute and whether their comments are are comprehensive and covers the entirety of the issue or whether they selectively concentrate on distractions and unimportant trivia. If you have knowledge then share it. If you have links then share them. If you're just here to say that there is no evidence other than the videos that we've seen then you'll probably be judged as a troll.
- idlewords 7y ago
  From what I can see, the account you're accusing of sockpuppetry here (battleangle) reflects a perfectly mainstream opinion among Hong Kongers. The accusation of sockpuppetry is unfounded and you should take it back.
- sersi 7y ago
  Based on his reply to your post and what he says, I'm rather sceptical that battleangle is a sock puppet account... The fact that Carrie Lam and her cabinet are extremely incompetent is what most HKers think. HK protesters not being united and being multiple groups is a fact. Out of the five demands, there are quite a few people in Hong Kong who don't necessarily agree with demand 2 and 3 about the riots. So he is right there. Those are the more controversial demands and not everyone in HK agrees with them. He's also right that Carrie Lam cannot currently agree to demand 4 and form an independent committee He also didn't say there was no influence by the CCP on HK issues. So his post reflect an opinion that a non-small percentage of HKers share.
FDSGSG 7y ago
> demands 3 and 4 would never be accepted by the rest of Hong Kong nor would any reasonable person accept it given what has taken place since the original protests. Why wouldn't any reasonable person accept an independent inquiry into police brutality? That doesn't sound very reasonable to me.

adaml_623 7y ago

Interesting to me to summarise the talking points being pushed by this battleangle sock puppet account: * Issues in HK are internal to HK. Caused by HK population and HK administrators and HK police * There is no influence by the CCP on HK issues * The protest in HK is asking for unreasonable things and isn't united. * There is no evidence of people being deported out of HK or assaulted by government forces from outside HK. Also, as you would expect, personal attacks are being aimed at witnesses of events that contradict this story. And doubts are cast at video evidence. It's pretty clear that there is an attempt to paint a disconnect between HK China and Mainland China

jacobush 7y ago
I don't know, the propaganda accounts are usually much more blunt. This one has nuanced words. Painting Carrie Lam as relying on the police and force etc.
battleangle 7y ago
As usual, rather than offer actual counterpoints, you resort to ad hominem attacks and complete misrepresentation of what I stated. - nowhere did I state issues in HK are internal to HK only. There's obvious influence by interested parties outside of HK as well. - HK is under the CCP. Of course there's influence. I never stated this either. I stated that the influence is much less than what media would like you to belive. - I specifically stated that 2 of the demands are unreasonable, and a third will never be tolerated by the CCP. The protest movement certainly isn't a united cause for Hong Kong as a whole. That's what I stated. Even in the recent local elections the pro-protest candidates garnered on average less than 60% of the votes despite record turn out on their side. - There indeed is no hard and credible evidence that people are being deported out of HK into China. That's what I stated. I did not state that none have been assaulted by government forces. " personal attacks are being aimed at witnesses of events that contradict this story" umm...what personal attacks? Do you even know that the evidence of an emergency doctor saying the rapes occurred is by a "Dr. Ray" on Facebook? He also wrote in Chinese that his evidence is that "if he is lying, may the people and heavens judge him". Unfortunately most people buying into the claim don't read Chinese. Now that I've pointed out your completely unbased claims and obvious disingenuity and lack of integrity, perhaps you want to provide evidence of claims to the contrary rather than your illogical rabble. *yes I'm a brand new account. I usually only read posts here, but I'm from HK and it's an issue close to heart. I'm sick of the misrepresentation of what's actually happening being reinforced by people who have very little knowledge of Hong Kong if they have even ever visited or lived there at all.
- adaml_623 7y ago
  I don't think you're a real person so I'm unsure as to how to respond to the accusation of an ad hominem attack. The actions of a new participant in an online community can often be judged by what new information they contribute and whether their comments are are comprehensive and covers the entirety of the issue or whether they selectively concentrate on distractions and unimportant trivia. If you have knowledge then share it. If you have links then share them. If you're just here to say that there is no evidence other than the videos that we've seen then you'll probably be judged as a troll.
idlewords 7y ago
From what I can see, the account you're accusing of sockpuppetry here (battleangle) reflects a perfectly mainstream opinion among Hong Kongers. The accusation of sockpuppetry is unfounded and you should take it back.
sersi 7y ago
Based on his reply to your post and what he says, I'm rather sceptical that battleangle is a sock puppet account... The fact that Carrie Lam and her cabinet are extremely incompetent is what most HKers think. HK protesters not being united and being multiple groups is a fact. Out of the five demands, there are quite a few people in Hong Kong who don't necessarily agree with demand 2 and 3 about the riots. So he is right there. Those are the more controversial demands and not everyone in HK agrees with them. He's also right that Carrie Lam cannot currently agree to demand 4 and form an independent committee He also didn't say there was no influence by the CCP on HK issues. So his post reflect an opinion that a non-small percentage of HKers share.

FDSGSG 7y ago

> demands 3 and 4 would never be accepted by the rest of Hong Kong nor would any reasonable person accept it given what has taken place since the original protests. Why wouldn't any reasonable person accept an independent inquiry into police brutality? That doesn't sound very reasonable to me.