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The woman in question seems neither comfortable or complacent. She needs the money to pay for her day-to-day expenses and has a long commute. With her type of w

The woman in question seems neither comfortable or complacent. She needs the money to pay for her day-to-day expenses and has a long commute. With her type of work experience, it would be difficult to find a more lucrative job. I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with her decision making process. She's simply been doing what is necessary to get by under difficult circumstances. I've met some capable and hardworking people who are like her. The sad truth is that some people simply just start off in a tough situation, work hard, and never get a lucky break. On the other side of the coin, I've seen people who have worked at a small company because nobody else will hire them, the company gets aquired and the old boss retires, and they end up in a cushy situation a the big company. In fact, I've seen this happen multiple times and it was definitely not the master plan of these individuals. It was just a lucky break.

soulofmischief 7y ago
The sad truth is that some people simply just start off in a tough situation, work hard, and never get a lucky break. Your tone implies that I don't understand the disparity of the human condition. I lived my entire life very impoverished and at times homeless. I come from a very abusive household and grew up in a rural area with little prospects. I've never caught a break. I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time.
- cixter 7y ago
  But should it really have been that hard for you? Massive creds for managing to pull yourself out, but it seems unfair and petty to wish upon others the same hardship you've had.
  - afiori 7y ago
    soulofmischief wished no kind of hardship, he is preaching an idea of taking responsibility for improving your life. I personally have not read any moral judgment in his comments; just a simple fact that, in many cases, if you want to improve your life you need to do it yourself. This together with a conjecture that in most cases the average person has indeed the possibility of upward mobility. A conjecture that was posed with an invite to hear opposing view. A discussion of how much we should expect help from outside is important (and I believe soulofmischief would agree), but it is not relevant to how to improve your own life in the situation that help does not exist yet. Personally I think we should separate the morality issue of being poor/rich from the mechanics of how people become/remain poor.
    - cixter 7y ago
      No moral judgement? He's literally stating that he thinks people who can't get out of poverty within 10-20 years are not worth his empathy. It's clear as day that he considers her to a large degree responsible for her situation. The anectotal example he is asking for is in the very article we're discussing. Not that she has made no mistakes, but that (as has been stated several times in these comments) such mistakes are extremely punishing when you are this poor. As for the discussion on societal help, I think it's very relevant, because the very definition of working yourself up from poverty means climbing the societal ladder. As such, the society you're in is intrinsic to improving your situation. It's a fallacy to say that you are completely in control of your own destiny and luck - the society around you is always helping and/or harming your efforts. Every person has an obligation to themselves to improve their life as best they can, but a society that ensures basic needs are met is the best springboard for being able to do so.
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        Actually, no, that's not what I said. I said that sometimes I have trouble empathizing with reasonably intelligent individuals who have not made a meaningful change to their prospects after 20 years, and I made a post requesting different points of view. The truth is that you're being way overcritical. Nothing about my post is clear as day, the only comments I made regarding Ms. Brown were in the form of questions. Are you going to help answer those questions or just light me up with your virtue signalling?
        cixter 7y ago
        You're right, I did extrapolate your statement - sorry about that. It's clear we're approaching this issue from completely different fundamental positions. To me, your question is uninteresting because my underlying belief is that all human beings that live in a society deserve a life where they don't have to worry about fundamental needs, such as food, shelter and hygiene. I think everyone should receive enough money from their jobs to afford decent, nutritional food, a small apartment, and hygiene articles. Even if they are hard-working or complacent, stupid or intelligent.
- iliketosleep 7y ago
  > Your tone implies that I don't understand the disparity of the human condition. I wasn't implying that at all. > I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time. To be able to pull that off requires a certain amount of natural aptitude that is not a given for most people. I respect people who have been able to find a way out of tough situations, but I also respect those who keep pushing through tough circumstances even when they haven't been able to find a way out.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    You're right about that. Me too. And especially retail. As the poet warrior Lil B The BasedGod once stated, "I'd rather be a broke rapper than wash some dishes." Well, I ignored that advice once because I figured my dish-washing skills were more employable than my street cred, and ended up having to quit that job because I developed carpal tunnel from being overworked. Several years later, I still suffer from the consequences and have to be vary careful not to injure myself at my desk job. I don't think physical or mental burnout gets anyone anywhere good. At least my former boss ended up having to get surgery for carpal tunnel himself sometime later.
- RockIslandLine 7y ago
  "I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time." So clearly, everyone can follow that same path, right?
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    No. You're presenting a false dichotomy. There is a spectrum of careers to choose from. However, I do think the average person can get into a tech career provided they pursue the right education. They better, as entry-level tech becomes the new blue collar. It is a failure on society's part that free career counseling and mentoring isn't mandatory, however as individual agents we must also take personal agency and make up for the shortfalls of society.

soulofmischief 7y ago

The sad truth is that some people simply just start off in a tough situation, work hard, and never get a lucky break. Your tone implies that I don't understand the disparity of the human condition. I lived my entire life very impoverished and at times homeless. I come from a very abusive household and grew up in a rural area with little prospects. I've never caught a break. I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time.

cixter 7y ago
But should it really have been that hard for you? Massive creds for managing to pull yourself out, but it seems unfair and petty to wish upon others the same hardship you've had.
- afiori 7y ago
  soulofmischief wished no kind of hardship, he is preaching an idea of taking responsibility for improving your life. I personally have not read any moral judgment in his comments; just a simple fact that, in many cases, if you want to improve your life you need to do it yourself. This together with a conjecture that in most cases the average person has indeed the possibility of upward mobility. A conjecture that was posed with an invite to hear opposing view. A discussion of how much we should expect help from outside is important (and I believe soulofmischief would agree), but it is not relevant to how to improve your own life in the situation that help does not exist yet. Personally I think we should separate the morality issue of being poor/rich from the mechanics of how people become/remain poor.
  - cixter 7y ago
    No moral judgement? He's literally stating that he thinks people who can't get out of poverty within 10-20 years are not worth his empathy. It's clear as day that he considers her to a large degree responsible for her situation. The anectotal example he is asking for is in the very article we're discussing. Not that she has made no mistakes, but that (as has been stated several times in these comments) such mistakes are extremely punishing when you are this poor. As for the discussion on societal help, I think it's very relevant, because the very definition of working yourself up from poverty means climbing the societal ladder. As such, the society you're in is intrinsic to improving your situation. It's a fallacy to say that you are completely in control of your own destiny and luck - the society around you is always helping and/or harming your efforts. Every person has an obligation to themselves to improve their life as best they can, but a society that ensures basic needs are met is the best springboard for being able to do so.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      Actually, no, that's not what I said. I said that sometimes I have trouble empathizing with reasonably intelligent individuals who have not made a meaningful change to their prospects after 20 years, and I made a post requesting different points of view. The truth is that you're being way overcritical. Nothing about my post is clear as day, the only comments I made regarding Ms. Brown were in the form of questions. Are you going to help answer those questions or just light me up with your virtue signalling?
      - cixter 7y ago
        You're right, I did extrapolate your statement - sorry about that. It's clear we're approaching this issue from completely different fundamental positions. To me, your question is uninteresting because my underlying belief is that all human beings that live in a society deserve a life where they don't have to worry about fundamental needs, such as food, shelter and hygiene. I think everyone should receive enough money from their jobs to afford decent, nutritional food, a small apartment, and hygiene articles. Even if they are hard-working or complacent, stupid or intelligent.
iliketosleep 7y ago
> Your tone implies that I don't understand the disparity of the human condition. I wasn't implying that at all. > I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time. To be able to pull that off requires a certain amount of natural aptitude that is not a given for most people. I respect people who have been able to find a way out of tough situations, but I also respect those who keep pushing through tough circumstances even when they haven't been able to find a way out.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  You're right about that. Me too. And especially retail. As the poet warrior Lil B The BasedGod once stated, "I'd rather be a broke rapper than wash some dishes." Well, I ignored that advice once because I figured my dish-washing skills were more employable than my street cred, and ended up having to quit that job because I developed carpal tunnel from being overworked. Several years later, I still suffer from the consequences and have to be vary careful not to injure myself at my desk job. I don't think physical or mental burnout gets anyone anywhere good. At least my former boss ended up having to get surgery for carpal tunnel himself sometime later.
RockIslandLine 7y ago
"I saw a way out, computers, and I took it. I was able to pivot to a better career by building skills in my free time." So clearly, everyone can follow that same path, right?
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  No. You're presenting a false dichotomy. There is a spectrum of careers to choose from. However, I do think the average person can get into a tech career provided they pursue the right education. They better, as entry-level tech becomes the new blue collar. It is a failure on society's part that free career counseling and mentoring isn't mandatory, however as individual agents we must also take personal agency and make up for the shortfalls of society.