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My favorite argument in defense of billionaires is space. Governments made basically no progress in outer space, and then a few billionaires decide they want to

My favorite argument in defense of billionaires is space. Governments made basically no progress in outer space, and then a few billionaires decide they want to go the stars, and suddenly everything happens again. And those billionaires did it with a fraction of the funds that the government could marshal - they have private sector acumen. You let the billionaires have their money because letting free people control that much capital is far superior to the government.

LiquidSky 7y ago
What are you talking about? Space travel is literally the worst possible argument on this front. >Governments made basically no progress in outer space Governments made ALL progress in space, ever. Space travel only exists at all because governments poured unbelievable amounts of money, resources, and people into researching and developing it over decades. These billionaires' efforts are starting on top of that. If they had to start from scratch it would be impossible. Government space programs petered out not because of a lack of "acument" or some other nonsense, but because public support for these programs ebbed as the impetus (the Cold War) went away. You really couldn't think of a worse example that completely undercuts your point.
gamblor956 7y ago
... Using decades of government funded research that let them save billions. Billionaires are good at commercializing the work of others. But they're not creators.
- Fezzik 7y ago
  Sure, but all-things-being-equal -- whatever that means in this scenario -- how long would it take an fictional Elon Musk to get to where the actual Elon Musk is today? Where would you see government propping him up in the process? The only reason government got us to the point it did in space exploration is because, for a brief-brief-brief period of time Elon Musk types were running the government. Now it is sycophantic cronies. It seems like having captial directed towards enlightened visionaries/beneficent dictators is preferable.
  - lucisferre 7y ago
    This reads like a cult of personality manefesto.
turk73 7y ago
Isn't the government basically underwriting SpaceX, though? Musk is a clever con man with cool tech, but still a con man. Also, the manned space program was political cover for ICBM development.
vannevar 7y ago
And those billionaires did it with a fraction of the funds that the government could marshal... Did what? The billionaires haven't even put a single person in orbit yet, something the government did within a few years of starting a space program. The US government went on to put humans on the moon (a feat yet to be equaled even by any other government, much less a billionaire), operate a reusable spacecraft for 30 years, and build an enormous space station in orbit and operate that for 20 years. Free people do control government capital in a functioning democracy that has not been captured by billionaires.
foobarbecue 7y ago
"Governments made basically no progress in outer space" Is a completely ridiculous thing to say. Governments explored every planet in the solar system and discovered thousands more in the galaxy, sent humans to the moon, and have kept humans in orbit continuously for 30 years. The US governement is about to send the first helicopter to Mars. Some of their contractors have been doing a good job of innovating lately too, great!
danans 7y ago
> and then a few billionaires decide they want to go the stars Wow, I knew JFK was rich, but I didn't think he was that rich! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon EDIT: /s ... if it sonehow wasn't clear. Nonetheless, the fact remains that JFK is the only person whose vision has led us "to the stars", and it was the US government that achieved the vision he put out.
pnako 7y ago
The Japanese space agency landed a robot on an asteroid, the European space agency landed a probe on a comet. Meanwhile people like Elon Musk are mostly interested in vanity and commercial projects. Sure, there are worse ways to spend your money as a billionaire than being a space tourist, but let's not pretend he's bringing much progress.
- r_deckard 7y ago
  His venture successfully built reuseable rockets that could lower the cost of spaceflight significantly. This would allow more people to do more things in space. Which could accelerate technological advancement in the space sector. This is something no one else have been able to do up until recently. I would at least consider that as a notable progress.

LiquidSky 7y ago

What are you talking about? Space travel is literally the worst possible argument on this front. >Governments made basically no progress in outer space Governments made ALL progress in space, ever. Space travel only exists at all because governments poured unbelievable amounts of money, resources, and people into researching and developing it over decades. These billionaires' efforts are starting on top of that. If they had to start from scratch it would be impossible. Government space programs petered out not because of a lack of "acument" or some other nonsense, but because public support for these programs ebbed as the impetus (the Cold War) went away. You really couldn't think of a worse example that completely undercuts your point.

gamblor956 7y ago

... Using decades of government funded research that let them save billions. Billionaires are good at commercializing the work of others. But they're not creators.

Fezzik 7y ago
Sure, but all-things-being-equal -- whatever that means in this scenario -- how long would it take an fictional Elon Musk to get to where the actual Elon Musk is today? Where would you see government propping him up in the process? The only reason government got us to the point it did in space exploration is because, for a brief-brief-brief period of time Elon Musk types were running the government. Now it is sycophantic cronies. It seems like having captial directed towards enlightened visionaries/beneficent dictators is preferable.
- lucisferre 7y ago
  This reads like a cult of personality manefesto.

turk73 7y ago

Isn't the government basically underwriting SpaceX, though? Musk is a clever con man with cool tech, but still a con man. Also, the manned space program was political cover for ICBM development.

vannevar 7y ago

And those billionaires did it with a fraction of the funds that the government could marshal... Did what? The billionaires haven't even put a single person in orbit yet, something the government did within a few years of starting a space program. The US government went on to put humans on the moon (a feat yet to be equaled even by any other government, much less a billionaire), operate a reusable spacecraft for 30 years, and build an enormous space station in orbit and operate that for 20 years. Free people do control government capital in a functioning democracy that has not been captured by billionaires.

foobarbecue 7y ago

"Governments made basically no progress in outer space" Is a completely ridiculous thing to say. Governments explored every planet in the solar system and discovered thousands more in the galaxy, sent humans to the moon, and have kept humans in orbit continuously for 30 years. The US governement is about to send the first helicopter to Mars. Some of their contractors have been doing a good job of innovating lately too, great!

danans 7y ago

> and then a few billionaires decide they want to go the stars Wow, I knew JFK was rich, but I didn't think he was that rich! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon EDIT: /s ... if it sonehow wasn't clear. Nonetheless, the fact remains that JFK is the only person whose vision has led us "to the stars", and it was the US government that achieved the vision he put out.

pnako 7y ago

The Japanese space agency landed a robot on an asteroid, the European space agency landed a probe on a comet. Meanwhile people like Elon Musk are mostly interested in vanity and commercial projects. Sure, there are worse ways to spend your money as a billionaire than being a space tourist, but let's not pretend he's bringing much progress.

r_deckard 7y ago
His venture successfully built reuseable rockets that could lower the cost of spaceflight significantly. This would allow more people to do more things in space. Which could accelerate technological advancement in the space sector. This is something no one else have been able to do up until recently. I would at least consider that as a notable progress.