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On iOS, there is no way to do this. Every location request will ultimately send your location to Apple.

by lern_too_spel 7y ago

saagarjha 7y ago
No: you can get location from GPS entirely on-device.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  I never claimed you couldn't. I said that if you get your GPS location, iOS will send it to Apple, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. "By enabling Location Services for your devices, you agree and consent to the transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of your location data and location search queries by Apple and its partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based and road traffic-based products and services." It will also send your location to Apple when no app is requesting your location: "If Location Services is on, your iPhone will periodically send the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple, to be used for augmenting this crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower locations." Unlike on Android, you cannot get your location without sending this data to Apple: "To use features such as these, you must enable Location Services on your iPhone" https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    > I said that if you get your GPS location, iOS will send it to Apple, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Turn off networking. You can still get your location via GPS, but there is no way to send this back to Apple. > By enabling Location Services for your devices You seem to be confusing Location Services with location data. Location Services are the value adds mentioned in the support article, from which it's clear that they largely require sending your location to work.
    - lern_too_spel 7y ago
      > Turn off networking. You can still get your location via GPS, but there is no way to send this back to Apple. Technically true, but this makes your iPhone a dumber dumb phone than it already is, and I doubt anybody would seriously use this mitigation. > You seem to be confusing Location Services with location data. You cannot get location data without enabling Location Services. "Location Services allows Apple and third-party apps and websites to gather and use information based on the current location of your iPhone or Apple Watch to provide a variety of location-based services. For example, an app might use your location data and location search query to help you find nearby coffee shops or theaters, or your device may set its time zone automatically based on your current location."
      - saagarjha 7y ago
        > Technically true, but…I doubt anybody would seriously use this mitigation. People don't usually do this purposefully as a "mitigation", yes; however it is still a useful feature to have when dealing with poor connectivity. But more on topic, you seem to be talking about Android somehow doing something else? Is there a way that Android lets you get location services (see below) without sending your location to Google? > this makes your iPhone a dumber dumb phone than it already is If you're going to argue, please do so with at least the barest hint of good faith please. > You cannot get location data without enabling Location Services. You can get basic location data by turning on your GPS and making a couple of CoreLocation calls. You can get additional location information by sending this location (or a location query) to Apple to get some additional information about it, as mentioned in the quote you shared. In any case, we both know exactly what information we're talking about: you can figure out where you are without talking to Apple, and if you want to know about restaurants or turn off the sprinklers when you get to work then you're going to have to go through them. Whatever you choose to call it is not relevant.
        lern_too_spel 7y ago
        > You can get basic location data by turning on your GPS and making a couple of CoreLocation calls You can't without enabling Location Services. If you could, that would be a huge security hole because users can only disable Location Services and not CoreLocation. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207092 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207092 > however it is still a useful feature to have when dealing with poor connectivity. In order to not send your location to Apple, you have to leave the network off. The location will be stored on the device and synced to Apple later if not. Nobody is going to do that just to not send their location to Apple. They'll get a phone that they are in control of instead. > Is there a way that Android lets you get location services (see below) without sending your location to Google? Yes. Just request location permission and use the location API. If you want AGPS functionality, you still have to request the location permission, but you need to call a Google API (or an Amazon API on Amazon devices, etc.). > If you're going to argue, please do so with at least the barest hint of good faith please. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous your mitigation is using an equally ridiculous description.
- m463 7y ago
  that doesn't mean that apple doesn't cache your location, or build up a list of location-to-wifi-access-points for their crowdsourced wifi location database.

On iOS, there is no way to do this. Every location request will ultimately send your location to Apple.

saagarjha 7y ago

No: you can get location from GPS entirely on-device.

lern_too_spel 7y ago
I never claimed you couldn't. I said that if you get your GPS location, iOS will send it to Apple, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. "By enabling Location Services for your devices, you agree and consent to the transmission, collection, maintenance, processing, and use of your location data and location search queries by Apple and its partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based and road traffic-based products and services." It will also send your location to Apple when no app is requesting your location: "If Location Services is on, your iPhone will periodically send the geo-tagged locations of nearby Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers in an anonymous and encrypted form to Apple, to be used for augmenting this crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspot and cell tower locations." Unlike on Android, you cannot get your location without sending this data to Apple: "To use features such as these, you must enable Location Services on your iPhone" https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207056
- saagarjha 7y ago
  > I said that if you get your GPS location, iOS will send it to Apple, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Turn off networking. You can still get your location via GPS, but there is no way to send this back to Apple. > By enabling Location Services for your devices You seem to be confusing Location Services with location data. Location Services are the value adds mentioned in the support article, from which it's clear that they largely require sending your location to work.
  - lern_too_spel 7y ago
    > Turn off networking. You can still get your location via GPS, but there is no way to send this back to Apple. Technically true, but this makes your iPhone a dumber dumb phone than it already is, and I doubt anybody would seriously use this mitigation. > You seem to be confusing Location Services with location data. You cannot get location data without enabling Location Services. "Location Services allows Apple and third-party apps and websites to gather and use information based on the current location of your iPhone or Apple Watch to provide a variety of location-based services. For example, an app might use your location data and location search query to help you find nearby coffee shops or theaters, or your device may set its time zone automatically based on your current location."
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      > Technically true, but…I doubt anybody would seriously use this mitigation. People don't usually do this purposefully as a "mitigation", yes; however it is still a useful feature to have when dealing with poor connectivity. But more on topic, you seem to be talking about Android somehow doing something else? Is there a way that Android lets you get location services (see below) without sending your location to Google? > this makes your iPhone a dumber dumb phone than it already is If you're going to argue, please do so with at least the barest hint of good faith please. > You cannot get location data without enabling Location Services. You can get basic location data by turning on your GPS and making a couple of CoreLocation calls. You can get additional location information by sending this location (or a location query) to Apple to get some additional information about it, as mentioned in the quote you shared. In any case, we both know exactly what information we're talking about: you can figure out where you are without talking to Apple, and if you want to know about restaurants or turn off the sprinklers when you get to work then you're going to have to go through them. Whatever you choose to call it is not relevant.
      - lern_too_spel 7y ago
        > You can get basic location data by turning on your GPS and making a couple of CoreLocation calls You can't without enabling Location Services. If you could, that would be a huge security hole because users can only disable Location Services and not CoreLocation. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207092 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207092 > however it is still a useful feature to have when dealing with poor connectivity. In order to not send your location to Apple, you have to leave the network off. The location will be stored on the device and synced to Apple later if not. Nobody is going to do that just to not send their location to Apple. They'll get a phone that they are in control of instead. > Is there a way that Android lets you get location services (see below) without sending your location to Google? Yes. Just request location permission and use the location API. If you want AGPS functionality, you still have to request the location permission, but you need to call a Google API (or an Amazon API on Amazon devices, etc.). > If you're going to argue, please do so with at least the barest hint of good faith please. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous your mitigation is using an equally ridiculous description.
m463 7y ago
that doesn't mean that apple doesn't cache your location, or build up a list of location-to-wifi-access-points for their crowdsourced wifi location database.