5 ms·

The U1 chip is definitely really cool and a promising step in improving the accuracy of indoor localization. Apple giving devs access to it will likely drive so

by ramzyo 7y ago

The U1 chip is definitely really cool and a promising step in improving the accuracy of indoor localization. Apple giving devs access to it will likely drive some innovation, but there still have to be other devices/beacons/motes whatever that can communicate with the U1 chip to make it usable outside of the Apple ecosystem. Fortunately, as mentioned in the 9to5mac article, the U1 adheres to the UWB standard which should help with interoperability should Apple choose to allow for that on its devices.

rapjr9 7y ago
You can buy a Decawave SDK for about $1000 which supposedly works on the same standard: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/TREK1000/1479-1003-ND/5125656 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/T... I say supposedly since it is quite common for companies to make their "compatible" version have proprietary features so as to lock in developers. There is also a $39 eval kit: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/DWM1004-ES/1479-DWM1004-ES-ND/10301713 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/D... and a $300 12 pack of battery powered devices that will work as-is with Decawave's open source phone app: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/MDEK1001/1479-1006-ND/7394534 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/M... Note that high quality (10 cm in this case) indoor location tracking means new privacy problems. Your phone can now know which room it is in (especially if you supply a home/office map), what part of that room it is in, what table it is placed on, what similar devices are close by and how they are arranged, and has more info to figure out who is carrying it, etc. Similarly other devices that participate in this location system can potentially know the precise location of your phone and other devices. Combined with GPS this can give quite a complete picture of your entire life, where you are at all times, who you interact with, what institutions you visit and participate in, what products you use and when you use them, what you pay attention to, and more. It makes some magical things possible too, bring two devices together and they interact, sit in a chair and the computer boots. Four DW1000 chips placed at the four corners of a typical house or apartment are needed for indoor location (with a phone and a tile on your keys you can only get distance) so perhaps Apple will introduce an infrastructure kit to set up mapping your home. Something similar for larger buildings/offices/industrial settings also seems likely (or available from a third party). I've never investigated the data transfer capability of the Decawave system, anyone understand what it's limitations are? Would a video link built with it drop out if someone walked into the line of sight path? 6.8 Mbps probably isn't enough to send 4K video but it might be OK for one 1080p stream or a few SD resolution streams depending on the codec.
- naikrovek 7y ago
  That $300 kit is the second version of the dev kit. Yes, line of sight is very important for this. You want all of the anchors (the fixed, non-moving devices) up as high as you can get them, and you need their positions to be known with precision, or the location of the tags will be off by a large amount. There are also limitations with UWB that must be understood very well and designed around in order for a successful deployment of any size. There is no way I can fit everything I learned about this system/technology into an HN comment. I recommend getting the $300 kit and experimenting extensively to find out if the technology is suitable for your environment.
- RossBencina 7y ago
  For other options, there are various DWM1000-based boards out there. Check ebay, Ali Express, seed studio for examples.

by ramzyo 7y ago

rapjr9 7y ago

You can buy a Decawave SDK for about $1000 which supposedly works on the same standard: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/TREK1000/1479-1003-ND/5125656 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/T... I say supposedly since it is quite common for companies to make their "compatible" version have proprietary features so as to lock in developers. There is also a $39 eval kit: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/DWM1004-ES/1479-DWM1004-ES-ND/10301713 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/D... and a $300 12 pack of battery powered devices that will work as-is with Decawave's open source phone app: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/MDEK1001/1479-1006-ND/7394534 https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/decawave-limited/M... Note that high quality (10 cm in this case) indoor location tracking means new privacy problems. Your phone can now know which room it is in (especially if you supply a home/office map), what part of that room it is in, what table it is placed on, what similar devices are close by and how they are arranged, and has more info to figure out who is carrying it, etc. Similarly other devices that participate in this location system can potentially know the precise location of your phone and other devices. Combined with GPS this can give quite a complete picture of your entire life, where you are at all times, who you interact with, what institutions you visit and participate in, what products you use and when you use them, what you pay attention to, and more. It makes some magical things possible too, bring two devices together and they interact, sit in a chair and the computer boots. Four DW1000 chips placed at the four corners of a typical house or apartment are needed for indoor location (with a phone and a tile on your keys you can only get distance) so perhaps Apple will introduce an infrastructure kit to set up mapping your home. Something similar for larger buildings/offices/industrial settings also seems likely (or available from a third party). I've never investigated the data transfer capability of the Decawave system, anyone understand what it's limitations are? Would a video link built with it drop out if someone walked into the line of sight path? 6.8 Mbps probably isn't enough to send 4K video but it might be OK for one 1080p stream or a few SD resolution streams depending on the codec.

naikrovek 7y ago
That $300 kit is the second version of the dev kit. Yes, line of sight is very important for this. You want all of the anchors (the fixed, non-moving devices) up as high as you can get them, and you need their positions to be known with precision, or the location of the tags will be off by a large amount. There are also limitations with UWB that must be understood very well and designed around in order for a successful deployment of any size. There is no way I can fit everything I learned about this system/technology into an HN comment. I recommend getting the $300 kit and experimenting extensively to find out if the technology is suitable for your environment.
RossBencina 7y ago
For other options, there are various DWM1000-based boards out there. Check ebay, Ali Express, seed studio for examples.