5 ms·

That's precisely what I've been thinking about Tim Ferriss. His books look like get-rich-quick nonsense pawned off on the gullible. No notion of the hard work (

That's precisely what I've been thinking about Tim Ferriss. His books look like get-rich-quick nonsense pawned off on the gullible. No notion of the hard work (and natural talent) required to build a great business or become a successful athlete. His next book will surely claim that we can all make Carnegie Hall with minimal practice.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago
Tim's books are effectively about finding the 20% of your efforts that give you 80% (or 90%) of your results, and then just doing those things. They've both been very effective for me (as in, they've introduced life-changing ideas and strategies to me), but you sound like you've made up your mind. Have you read them?
- chrisaycock 16y ago
  I haven't read the Avesta, but I don't believe in Zoroastrianism.
  - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
    Yes, that's the same.
- kmfrk 16y ago
  You've basically described all self-help books in the history of mankind.
  - ryanwaggoner 16y ago
    You're not making sense. So if a book purports to help someone, it's automatically bullshit? Even if many people have found it to be useful and to have a positive impact in their lives?
    - kmfrk 16y ago
      I'm just saying that you are doing a poor job of dispelling people's reservations. What I'm saying makes perfect sense to people who can't stand the industry and Tim Ferris. I don't know what it looks like to you. There will always be people who love something, regardless of what it is, and whether it works or not.
      - JimJones 16y ago
        And crosshairs in moon landing photos make perfect sense to people who belive it was faked. Tim's books have some worthwhile advice backed by solid data and also some very anecdote-based conclusions. If you're not flat out calling him a liar, his methods have worked for at least himself. That's all that he claims. If you want to know if they'll work for you, try some of them or do the research yourself.
    - chc 16y ago
      I think the common objection to self-help books is not "Hey, books shouldn't help people!" It's that the content of self-help books tends to fall into one of three categories: 1) Common-sensical faffery ("Don't waste time!") 2) Meaningless, feel-good faffery ("You have all the power you need, right inside you!") 3) Snake oil ("Hold a magnet to your head for four hours a week and become a Nietzschian Ubermensch!") None of these categories are really valuable content, so self-help books get a reputation as blatant time-wasters at best (due to the copious faffery) and harmful scams at worst (due to the snake oil). When somebody says something sounds like a "typical self-help book," most of the time they're really saying it sounds like one or more of those things.
jlees 16y ago
They look like get-rich-quick but there are some real nuggets of truth in there; but the hard work is well disguised. Take for example the 4-Hour body's section on ultrarunning. I'm training for a marathon so I know how hard it is, yet the way it's written about in the book is (to my recollection - don't have my copy here) "20 minutes 3 times a week and you can run 50K". Then you read closer, and closer, and there are detailed training schedules with some long runs, and it's actually sensible - but the initial wow is definitely along the lines of snake oil. I think Tim just knows what will get people to bite, but underneath it all he also knows how to achieve (most of) the things he writes about.
- erikpukinskis 16y ago
  OK, but as someone who as run a 50k, "20 minutes 3 times a week and you can run 50K" is bald faced lie.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2141990 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2141990
    - erikpukinskis 16y ago
      http://cltblog.com/files/2010/08/03-980x661.jpg http://cltblog.com/files/2010/08/03-980x661.jpg
mechanical_fish 16y ago
we can all make Carnegie Hall with minimal practice Well... sure. We can, right? Step one: Phone Carnegie Hall. Ask them how much it costs to rent the place for a while. They do that, as attested by this rentals page: http://www.carnegiehall.org/article/the_basics/art_hall_rentals.html http://www.carnegiehall.org/article/the_basics/art_hall_rent... It is probably quite a lot, but it may be less than you think. Step two: Find some musicians with actual talent to fill out your program at the Hall. Hint: Classical music students are not rich. And they love to perform. And they're astonishingly talented. Better idea: There are a bunch of college a-capella groups. There are a bunch of high school music groups. All those folks might love to perform at Carnegie Hall. Especially if it's an event with a bunch of other groups. And their parents might love to come. And their friends. Step three: Schedule your concert. Charge enough admission to cover the cost of the hall and whatever you have to pay your musicians. Donate any leftover money to a charity. Preferably one with lots of supporters who want to come and fill out your audience at Carnegie Hall. Step four: Come up with something you can play during your more-than-slightly-comedic opening act. I'm a banjo player, so naturally I suggest the banjo. It sounds cheerful and three chords will get you through a lot of folk repertoire. Fallback position: The kazoo. (But don't overstay your welcome. The joke will get old very fast.) And you're on! What have we all learned from this Ferris-esque exercise? A) Being a concert promoter is not, in fact, rocket science. (Being a consistently profitable concert promoter is a different matter. But that isn't our necessarily our goal, is it?) B) Oops, by "make Carnegie Hall" we didn't actually mean "stand on stage at Carnegie Hall and play an instrument in a way which entertains hundreds of people". Not just that. No, we meant something much more intangible and ineffable and... well, unobtainable. We want to Arrive, whatever that means. What does that mean? Perhaps we should think about that. And what of all the people who have made it to Carnegie Hall, many times, to public acclaim, but still have found themselves unsatisfied or even terrified? (Did you know that Vladimir Horowitz retired from live performance at the height of his career because of debilitating stage fright?)
greyman 16y ago
>> No notion of the hard work (and natural talent) required No, no, that's not true. What he suggest to his readers, like low carb diet, or no-news diet is quite a hard work.

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

Tim's books are effectively about finding the 20% of your efforts that give you 80% (or 90%) of your results, and then just doing those things. They've both been very effective for me (as in, they've introduced life-changing ideas and strategies to me), but you sound like you've made up your mind. Have you read them?

chrisaycock 16y ago
I haven't read the Avesta, but I don't believe in Zoroastrianism.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  Yes, that's the same.
kmfrk 16y ago
You've basically described all self-help books in the history of mankind.
- ryanwaggoner 16y ago
  You're not making sense. So if a book purports to help someone, it's automatically bullshit? Even if many people have found it to be useful and to have a positive impact in their lives?
  - kmfrk 16y ago
    I'm just saying that you are doing a poor job of dispelling people's reservations. What I'm saying makes perfect sense to people who can't stand the industry and Tim Ferris. I don't know what it looks like to you. There will always be people who love something, regardless of what it is, and whether it works or not.
    - JimJones 16y ago
      And crosshairs in moon landing photos make perfect sense to people who belive it was faked. Tim's books have some worthwhile advice backed by solid data and also some very anecdote-based conclusions. If you're not flat out calling him a liar, his methods have worked for at least himself. That's all that he claims. If you want to know if they'll work for you, try some of them or do the research yourself.
  - chc 16y ago
    I think the common objection to self-help books is not "Hey, books shouldn't help people!" It's that the content of self-help books tends to fall into one of three categories: 1) Common-sensical faffery ("Don't waste time!") 2) Meaningless, feel-good faffery ("You have all the power you need, right inside you!") 3) Snake oil ("Hold a magnet to your head for four hours a week and become a Nietzschian Ubermensch!") None of these categories are really valuable content, so self-help books get a reputation as blatant time-wasters at best (due to the copious faffery) and harmful scams at worst (due to the snake oil). When somebody says something sounds like a "typical self-help book," most of the time they're really saying it sounds like one or more of those things.

jlees 16y ago

They look like get-rich-quick but there are some real nuggets of truth in there; but the hard work is well disguised. Take for example the 4-Hour body's section on ultrarunning. I'm training for a marathon so I know how hard it is, yet the way it's written about in the book is (to my recollection - don't have my copy here) "20 minutes 3 times a week and you can run 50K". Then you read closer, and closer, and there are detailed training schedules with some long runs, and it's actually sensible - but the initial wow is definitely along the lines of snake oil. I think Tim just knows what will get people to bite, but underneath it all he also knows how to achieve (most of) the things he writes about.

erikpukinskis 16y ago
OK, but as someone who as run a 50k, "20 minutes 3 times a week and you can run 50K" is bald faced lie.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2141990 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2141990
  - erikpukinskis 16y ago
    http://cltblog.com/files/2010/08/03-980x661.jpg http://cltblog.com/files/2010/08/03-980x661.jpg

mechanical_fish 16y ago

we can all make Carnegie Hall with minimal practice Well... sure. We can, right? Step one: Phone Carnegie Hall. Ask them how much it costs to rent the place for a while. They do that, as attested by this rentals page: http://www.carnegiehall.org/article/the_basics/art_hall_rentals.html http://www.carnegiehall.org/article/the_basics/art_hall_rent... It is probably quite a lot, but it may be less than you think. Step two: Find some musicians with actual talent to fill out your program at the Hall. Hint: Classical music students are not rich. And they love to perform. And they're astonishingly talented. Better idea: There are a bunch of college a-capella groups. There are a bunch of high school music groups. All those folks might love to perform at Carnegie Hall. Especially if it's an event with a bunch of other groups. And their parents might love to come. And their friends. Step three: Schedule your concert. Charge enough admission to cover the cost of the hall and whatever you have to pay your musicians. Donate any leftover money to a charity. Preferably one with lots of supporters who want to come and fill out your audience at Carnegie Hall. Step four: Come up with something you can play during your more-than-slightly-comedic opening act. I'm a banjo player, so naturally I suggest the banjo. It sounds cheerful and three chords will get you through a lot of folk repertoire. Fallback position: The kazoo. (But don't overstay your welcome. The joke will get old very fast.) And you're on! What have we all learned from this Ferris-esque exercise? A) Being a concert promoter is not, in fact, rocket science. (Being a consistently profitable concert promoter is a different matter. But that isn't our necessarily our goal, is it?) B) Oops, by "make Carnegie Hall" we didn't actually mean "stand on stage at Carnegie Hall and play an instrument in a way which entertains hundreds of people". Not just that. No, we meant something much more intangible and ineffable and... well, unobtainable. We want to Arrive, whatever that means. What does that mean? Perhaps we should think about that. And what of all the people who have made it to Carnegie Hall, many times, to public acclaim, but still have found themselves unsatisfied or even terrified? (Did you know that Vladimir Horowitz retired from live performance at the height of his career because of debilitating stage fright?)

greyman 16y ago

>> No notion of the hard work (and natural talent) required No, no, that's not true. What he suggest to his readers, like low carb diet, or no-news diet is quite a hard work.