5 ms·

Set your heart on an MBA? Don't bother

40 points by louhong 16y ago

wesgarrison 16y ago
I've been dreaming about finding other business owners that want to do a Do-It-Yourself MBA ( http://personalmba.com/manifesto/ http://personalmba.com/manifesto/) -like reading program and discussion group, but have yet to make the time to organize such a thing. I've considered getting either my MBA or my CPA, but didn't find the return on investment to be worth it.
- louhong 16y ago
  I find Fred Wilson's series (and blog posts) really informative (http://www.dailylit.com/books/mba-mondays http://www.dailylit.com/books/mba-mondays) and highly recommended in case you wanted to add it to your list.
- mbesto 16y ago
  A reading program/discussion group is a great idea. I'd join up but I'm based in the UK.
- tst 16y ago
  About two years ago there was this idea of a "HN book club": http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=407067 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=407067 I didn't know if it was realized probably not. But I would be delighted if we could start one! This year I started a book challenge for myself (http://111in2011.tumblr.com http://111in2011.tumblr.com) and looked for discussion platforms. GoodReads is not really useful because there are too few people interested in business books. And writing short reviews/summaries about books is nice but I miss the conversations :) So, if you start a discussion board or whatever, I'm happy if I can participate!
  - farout 16y ago
    I liked your synopsis. Haha. I had to smile at "Contrast, Repetition, Alignment and Proximity and don’t be a wimp." for Robin William's Non-Designer’s Design Book. I brought up CRAP in a meeting and I swear everyone thought I had three heads. I would have settled for two :-)
  - rjett 16y ago
    http://www.hn-books.com/ http://www.hn-books.com/
- mindcrime 16y ago
  Put me down as tentatively interested in that if somebody organizes it.
- jsiarto 16y ago
  The Personal MBA is a great program and his book is just as good (http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/1591843529/ http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/15...). My wife and I are part-way through both and he covers just about everything you could care to know about running a successful business. I have a BA and MA from a large state school and found the most rewarding things from my tenure in college were the relationships I built--not the classes. I would NEVER go into debt for a Master's or MBA--it's just not worth it. Find someone else to pay (scholarship, assistantship, teaching) or get to work, it's better experience anyway.
- wesgarrison 16y ago
  I read "I'm starting my own MBA reading club and you're not invited" [ http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/i-started-a-diy-mba-group-youre-not-invited/ http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/i-started-a-diy-mba-group-y...] and that's where I got the idea from. Do it locally, face-to-face discussion over a lunch every X weeks. Invite local business owners to come and speak so you're building relationships between the group and the outside business community. I hadn't considered a remote group, meet over Skype, or just via forum. If you're interested, shoot me an email and we'll go from there.
iuygtfrgth 16y ago
If you are going to a World Top 5 - then it might be worth it to network with the people who are going to be hiring CEOs. But for the same money you can join the golf club. Otherwise the world is full of middle managers who were sent on low grade MBAs by mega corps who didn't know what to do with them and couldn't fire them When you are interviewing managers were given a year off by a now-defunct multinational to do an MBA, ask how all the projects they claimed to be deeply involved with managed to run without them during that time.
- mindcrime 16y ago
  If you are going to a World Top 5 - then it might be worth it to network with the people who are going to be hiring CEOs. Maybe not even then. I don't have the reference in front of me, but I seem to recall something about a study of the Fortune 500 CEOs, and there were as many from some state school (University of Wisconsin, maybe?) as there were from Harvard. Edit: some links about this point. http://content.spencerstuart.com/sswebsite/pdf/lib/2005_CEO_Study_JS.pdf http://content.spencerstuart.com/sswebsite/pdf/lib/2005_CEO_... (Warning:PDF) http://bernardmoon.blogspot.com/2009/05/go-wisconsin-most-fortune-500-ceo-alums.html http://bernardmoon.blogspot.com/2009/05/go-wisconsin-most-fo... http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/01/03/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-college http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/... Here's another fun observation from that 2005 study (said as a North Carolinian who resides in Chapel Hill): Of the Fortune 100 CEOs, the top schools for their undergraduate degrees were: Harvard, Stanford, Yale, U. of North Carolina - 3% each Which one of these is not like the others? :-) (To be fair though, even though it's a state school, UNC is generally pretty highly regarded and their business school is usually pretty high in the national rankings.)
  - iuygtfrgth 16y ago
    That's not the statistic you are interested in though. The question isn't - if you go to Harvard will you become head of facebook/apple. The question is if you go to Harvard will you do OK as a senior VP of a firm where the person hiring you went to Harvard. MBA isn't for leaders - it's for followers, just very well paid followers.
marshally 16y ago
I picked up an MBA in 2001-2003 and I couldn't agree more. Did I learn a lot? Absolutely. Did I meet some great people? Sure. Worth the expense? Hell no. I could have plowed that money into a startup and learned 10x as much in 1/2 the time. These days skip the MBA, join a startup incubator, and use the saved hundred grand or so as runway for your startup. Exception: Ivy League schools put you in a "boys club" for the rest of your life that will open doors at startups, banks, service providers, Venture Capital firms, etc. If you are going to spend the money, for heaven's sake go to Harvard, Stanford, or somewhere else with the killer network.
- louhong 16y ago
  I encourage all my friends to go to b-school but personally, I'm opting to try my own startup. Last 2 years have been a lesson on its own and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Since my friends are well connected I'm at least a few intros away if I need anything now.
- farout 16y ago
  I completely agree. I was considering a MBA several years ago. My friend made the statement: MBA is about brand recognition. Since you want to be local, go to only MIT or Harvard, otherwise just start your company. Apparently Jack Welch made a similar comment when speaking to Sloan students a couple years back that angered the dean. When asked which courses to take, Welch replied (paraphrased), "it doesn't matter. this is a country club. network. That is value you are being provided."
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    This does make one inquire -- is there nothing to learn about business? Or is it impossible to teach business in a school setting? I'd find it odd to hear doctors say the same thing about medical school, or even lawyers about law school.
    - moomba 16y ago
      I think nobody disagrees with the idea that you will learn some stuff while getting your MBA. What people disagree with is the idea that you will learn more getting an MBA at a lower tier school than you will working at a startup. MBA's are great for opening doors, you will get more doors opened working at a startup or going to an Ivy League school than getting an MBA at a lower tiered school.
brd 16y ago
I went back and forth about the idea of pursuing an MBA for a few years. One day I had a conversation with a very successful small business owner and his response on the subject was "I know a lot of entrepreneurs and I can't think of a single one that has an MBA. Take that for what its worth." My deliberation ended after that conversation and articles like this just reaffirm that decision.
ojbyrne 16y ago
Posted 2 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2160105 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2160105
cambriar 16y ago
For most of my college career I was set on continuing it further into a MS in CS. I'm approximately a year away from my BS, and there is no way that I'd deviate from this current explosion of awesome present in today's job market. I see a lot more enthusiasm for creativity and output, something that lacks from a few of the traditional college systems. Then again, I once heard "college is there to test you, not teach you."
jamesbressi 16y ago
One day we will see the (higher) education bubble burst. It's overdue already in my opinion. I watched the bubble swell in the late 90's--and it has become insanely bigger and bigger in the last decade--as higher ed really turned into a business first and an education institution second.
dr_ 16y ago
Thought this was an article about why i shouldn't get a macbook air.
thompo 16y ago
My girlfriend is the assistant director of nursing at a 175 resident long term facility. She is two months from finishing her MBA online through University of Phoenix and will be taking an $8,500 raise (from $66,500 to $75,000) just for completing the program. This article discusses what a mistake it is to leave your current job to obtain an MBA while completely ignoring the fact that you don't -have- to leave your job to get your Masters anymore. "When you look at today’s most evolved business organisms, it is obvious that an MBA is not required for business success." You could argue that an undergrad degree isn't even required for business success. That's not the point. There are plenty of career paths that having a Masters is still a HUGE benefit and the health care industry might be one of the biggest. http://www.va.gov/opa/bios/ http://www.va.gov/opa/bios/ Read the executive bios for the VA and count the number of people that don't have a masters degree.
minouye 16y ago
The author of this article wrote a interesting book chronicling his experiences at HBS. It's a quick read and helpful for anyone considering B-school (skip over the technical chapters and focus on the anecdotes). I don't agree completely with his assertions, but it's another useful datapoint to take into consideration. http://www.amazon.com/Ahead-Curve-Harvard-Business-School/dp/1594201757 http://www.amazon.com/Ahead-Curve-Harvard-Business-School/dp...

40 points by louhong 16y ago

I've been dreaming about finding other business owners that want to do a Do-It-Yourself MBA ( http://personalmba.com/manifesto/ http://personalmba.com/manifesto/) -like reading program and discussion group, but have yet to make the time to organize such a thing. I've considered getting either my MBA or my CPA, but didn't find the return on investment to be worth it.

louhong 16y ago
I find Fred Wilson's series (and blog posts) really informative (http://www.dailylit.com/books/mba-mondays http://www.dailylit.com/books/mba-mondays) and highly recommended in case you wanted to add it to your list.
mbesto 16y ago
A reading program/discussion group is a great idea. I'd join up but I'm based in the UK.
tst 16y ago
About two years ago there was this idea of a "HN book club": http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=407067 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=407067 I didn't know if it was realized probably not. But I would be delighted if we could start one! This year I started a book challenge for myself (http://111in2011.tumblr.com http://111in2011.tumblr.com) and looked for discussion platforms. GoodReads is not really useful because there are too few people interested in business books. And writing short reviews/summaries about books is nice but I miss the conversations :) So, if you start a discussion board or whatever, I'm happy if I can participate!
- farout 16y ago
  I liked your synopsis. Haha. I had to smile at "Contrast, Repetition, Alignment and Proximity and don’t be a wimp." for Robin William's Non-Designer’s Design Book. I brought up CRAP in a meeting and I swear everyone thought I had three heads. I would have settled for two :-)
- rjett 16y ago
  http://www.hn-books.com/ http://www.hn-books.com/
mindcrime 16y ago
Put me down as tentatively interested in that if somebody organizes it.
jsiarto 16y ago
The Personal MBA is a great program and his book is just as good (http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/1591843529/ http://www.amazon.com/Personal-MBA-Master-Art-Business/dp/15...). My wife and I are part-way through both and he covers just about everything you could care to know about running a successful business. I have a BA and MA from a large state school and found the most rewarding things from my tenure in college were the relationships I built--not the classes. I would NEVER go into debt for a Master's or MBA--it's just not worth it. Find someone else to pay (scholarship, assistantship, teaching) or get to work, it's better experience anyway.
wesgarrison 16y ago
I read "I'm starting my own MBA reading club and you're not invited" [ http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/i-started-a-diy-mba-group-youre-not-invited/ http://www.kadavy.net/blog/posts/i-started-a-diy-mba-group-y...] and that's where I got the idea from. Do it locally, face-to-face discussion over a lunch every X weeks. Invite local business owners to come and speak so you're building relationships between the group and the outside business community. I hadn't considered a remote group, meet over Skype, or just via forum. If you're interested, shoot me an email and we'll go from there.

iuygtfrgth 16y ago

If you are going to a World Top 5 - then it might be worth it to network with the people who are going to be hiring CEOs. But for the same money you can join the golf club. Otherwise the world is full of middle managers who were sent on low grade MBAs by mega corps who didn't know what to do with them and couldn't fire them When you are interviewing managers were given a year off by a now-defunct multinational to do an MBA, ask how all the projects they claimed to be deeply involved with managed to run without them during that time.

mindcrime 16y ago
If you are going to a World Top 5 - then it might be worth it to network with the people who are going to be hiring CEOs. Maybe not even then. I don't have the reference in front of me, but I seem to recall something about a study of the Fortune 500 CEOs, and there were as many from some state school (University of Wisconsin, maybe?) as there were from Harvard. Edit: some links about this point. http://content.spencerstuart.com/sswebsite/pdf/lib/2005_CEO_Study_JS.pdf http://content.spencerstuart.com/sswebsite/pdf/lib/2005_CEO_... (Warning:PDF) http://bernardmoon.blogspot.com/2009/05/go-wisconsin-most-fortune-500-ceo-alums.html http://bernardmoon.blogspot.com/2009/05/go-wisconsin-most-fo... http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/01/03/where-the-fortune-500-ceos-went-to-college http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/... Here's another fun observation from that 2005 study (said as a North Carolinian who resides in Chapel Hill): Of the Fortune 100 CEOs, the top schools for their undergraduate degrees were: Harvard, Stanford, Yale, U. of North Carolina - 3% each Which one of these is not like the others? :-) (To be fair though, even though it's a state school, UNC is generally pretty highly regarded and their business school is usually pretty high in the national rankings.)
- iuygtfrgth 16y ago
  That's not the statistic you are interested in though. The question isn't - if you go to Harvard will you become head of facebook/apple. The question is if you go to Harvard will you do OK as a senior VP of a firm where the person hiring you went to Harvard. MBA isn't for leaders - it's for followers, just very well paid followers.

marshally 16y ago

I picked up an MBA in 2001-2003 and I couldn't agree more. Did I learn a lot? Absolutely. Did I meet some great people? Sure. Worth the expense? Hell no. I could have plowed that money into a startup and learned 10x as much in 1/2 the time. These days skip the MBA, join a startup incubator, and use the saved hundred grand or so as runway for your startup. Exception: Ivy League schools put you in a "boys club" for the rest of your life that will open doors at startups, banks, service providers, Venture Capital firms, etc. If you are going to spend the money, for heaven's sake go to Harvard, Stanford, or somewhere else with the killer network.

louhong 16y ago
I encourage all my friends to go to b-school but personally, I'm opting to try my own startup. Last 2 years have been a lesson on its own and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Since my friends are well connected I'm at least a few intros away if I need anything now.
farout 16y ago
I completely agree. I was considering a MBA several years ago. My friend made the statement: MBA is about brand recognition. Since you want to be local, go to only MIT or Harvard, otherwise just start your company. Apparently Jack Welch made a similar comment when speaking to Sloan students a couple years back that angered the dean. When asked which courses to take, Welch replied (paraphrased), "it doesn't matter. this is a country club. network. That is value you are being provided."
- kenjackson 16y ago
  This does make one inquire -- is there nothing to learn about business? Or is it impossible to teach business in a school setting? I'd find it odd to hear doctors say the same thing about medical school, or even lawyers about law school.
  - moomba 16y ago
    I think nobody disagrees with the idea that you will learn some stuff while getting your MBA. What people disagree with is the idea that you will learn more getting an MBA at a lower tier school than you will working at a startup. MBA's are great for opening doors, you will get more doors opened working at a startup or going to an Ivy League school than getting an MBA at a lower tiered school.

brd 16y ago

I went back and forth about the idea of pursuing an MBA for a few years. One day I had a conversation with a very successful small business owner and his response on the subject was "I know a lot of entrepreneurs and I can't think of a single one that has an MBA. Take that for what its worth." My deliberation ended after that conversation and articles like this just reaffirm that decision.

ojbyrne 16y ago

Posted 2 days ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2160105 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2160105

cambriar 16y ago

For most of my college career I was set on continuing it further into a MS in CS. I'm approximately a year away from my BS, and there is no way that I'd deviate from this current explosion of awesome present in today's job market. I see a lot more enthusiasm for creativity and output, something that lacks from a few of the traditional college systems. Then again, I once heard "college is there to test you, not teach you."

jamesbressi 16y ago

One day we will see the (higher) education bubble burst. It's overdue already in my opinion. I watched the bubble swell in the late 90's--and it has become insanely bigger and bigger in the last decade--as higher ed really turned into a business first and an education institution second.

dr_ 16y ago

Thought this was an article about why i shouldn't get a macbook air.

thompo 16y ago

My girlfriend is the assistant director of nursing at a 175 resident long term facility. She is two months from finishing her MBA online through University of Phoenix and will be taking an $8,500 raise (from $66,500 to $75,000) just for completing the program. This article discusses what a mistake it is to leave your current job to obtain an MBA while completely ignoring the fact that you don't -have- to leave your job to get your Masters anymore. "When you look at today’s most evolved business organisms, it is obvious that an MBA is not required for business success." You could argue that an undergrad degree isn't even required for business success. That's not the point. There are plenty of career paths that having a Masters is still a HUGE benefit and the health care industry might be one of the biggest. http://www.va.gov/opa/bios/ http://www.va.gov/opa/bios/ Read the executive bios for the VA and count the number of people that don't have a masters degree.

minouye 16y ago

The author of this article wrote a interesting book chronicling his experiences at HBS. It's a quick read and helpful for anyone considering B-school (skip over the technical chapters and focus on the anecdotes). I don't agree completely with his assertions, but it's another useful datapoint to take into consideration. http://www.amazon.com/Ahead-Curve-Harvard-Business-School/dp/1594201757 http://www.amazon.com/Ahead-Curve-Harvard-Business-School/dp...