5 ms·

Did you just say secret backdoor or secret root account for research purposes?

by wil421 7y ago

Wowfunhappy 7y ago
Sorry, that's definitely not what I meant! I would like there to be a process similar to disabling System Integrity Protection on macOS, which requires booting into recovery mode. From there you can gain kernel access and inspect whatever processes you want. It won't happen, and I consider it a major problem with iOS.
- wil421 7y ago
  I’d imagine maybe a special mode in Xcode where you could connect via USB and get extra debugging.
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    Then Cellebrite would spoof that.
- earthboundkid 7y ago
  I also feel like iOS should have such a mode, but I also imagine that if it existed there would be a million pages saying, "Hey kids, want to install this cracked game? It's easy, first get your dad's iPhone and turn off system integrity protection…" It already happens with enterprise certs.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    Facebook and Google literally targeted kids to install enterprise profiles so they could VPN and spy on all their traffic.
    - chrisweekly 7y ago
      This is news to me. Mind sharing a link?
      - esmi 7y ago
        https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    Well for that specific case, you'd need your Dad's passcode to install the enterprise cert. But "Facebook Research" is a thing that happened. I think there's more that could be done to make the process unappealing. What if the setting erased all data on the phone, a la unlocking the bootloader on Android? What if there was a one-week time delay before the setting took effect? What if you had to visit an Apple Store? (I don't like that last option, because it makes research inaccessible to e.g. people in countries without Apple Stores. But it would be better than what we have now.)
- duskwuff 7y ago
  > I would like there to be a process similar to disabling System Integrity Protection on macOS, which requires booting into recovery mode. From there you can gain kernel access and inspect whatever processes you want. The biggest concern I'd have with this would be that it would almost certainly be abused to install undetectable surveillance software on devices, e.g. by a partner in an abusive relationship, or by overbearing parents on a child's device.
  - sk0g 7y ago
    That can be dealt with though. Could be like Safe Mode in Windows was/ used to be, where your wallpaper gets replaced by text saying you're in unprotected mode.
    - duskwuff 7y ago
      That could easily be disabled, though. The whole point of this mode is to allow users to tamper with the device, after all; it would be difficult to stop users from tampering with code which checked whether the device was in that mode.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    When you unlock the bootloader of an Android phone, Android (A) deletes all existing data on the device and (B) adds a big, red warning message to the startup screen. They're simple mitigations, but I have trouble imagining how someone in e.g. an abusive relationship wouldn't notice these changes. Is it perfect? No, but everything in life is a tradeoff. And not being able to study our own devices is a big problem too.

Did you just say secret backdoor or secret root account for research purposes?

by wil421 7y ago

Did you just say secret backdoor or secret root account for research purposes?

Sorry, that's definitely not what I meant! I would like there to be a process similar to disabling System Integrity Protection on macOS, which requires booting into recovery mode. From there you can gain kernel access and inspect whatever processes you want. It won't happen, and I consider it a major problem with iOS.

wil421 7y ago
I’d imagine maybe a special mode in Xcode where you could connect via USB and get extra debugging.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Then Cellebrite would spoof that.
earthboundkid 7y ago
I also feel like iOS should have such a mode, but I also imagine that if it existed there would be a million pages saying, "Hey kids, want to install this cracked game? It's easy, first get your dad's iPhone and turn off system integrity protection…" It already happens with enterprise certs.
- TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
  Facebook and Google literally targeted kids to install enterprise profiles so they could VPN and spy on all their traffic.
  - chrisweekly 7y ago
    This is news to me. Mind sharing a link?
    - esmi 7y ago
      https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  Well for that specific case, you'd need your Dad's passcode to install the enterprise cert. But "Facebook Research" is a thing that happened. I think there's more that could be done to make the process unappealing. What if the setting erased all data on the phone, a la unlocking the bootloader on Android? What if there was a one-week time delay before the setting took effect? What if you had to visit an Apple Store? (I don't like that last option, because it makes research inaccessible to e.g. people in countries without Apple Stores. But it would be better than what we have now.)
duskwuff 7y ago
> I would like there to be a process similar to disabling System Integrity Protection on macOS, which requires booting into recovery mode. From there you can gain kernel access and inspect whatever processes you want. The biggest concern I'd have with this would be that it would almost certainly be abused to install undetectable surveillance software on devices, e.g. by a partner in an abusive relationship, or by overbearing parents on a child's device.
- sk0g 7y ago
  That can be dealt with though. Could be like Safe Mode in Windows was/ used to be, where your wallpaper gets replaced by text saying you're in unprotected mode.
  - duskwuff 7y ago
    That could easily be disabled, though. The whole point of this mode is to allow users to tamper with the device, after all; it would be difficult to stop users from tampering with code which checked whether the device was in that mode.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  When you unlock the bootloader of an Android phone, Android (A) deletes all existing data on the device and (B) adds a big, red warning message to the startup screen. They're simple mitigations, but I have trouble imagining how someone in e.g. an abusive relationship wouldn't notice these changes. Is it perfect? No, but everything in life is a tradeoff. And not being able to study our own devices is a big problem too.