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I have a two-pronged proposal which, though unrealistic, is technically feasible today and could probably work. 1. Force people seeking a driver's license to u

I have a two-pronged proposal which, though unrealistic, is technically feasible today and could probably work. 1. Force people seeking a driver's license to undergo classes, regardless of their prior self-education. In my opinion, a significant amount of irresponsible and incompetent driving stems from the early failures in parents teaching their kids properly. People not only don't learn everything they need to, but they don't respect driving as the dangerous activity it is. If someone succeeds in obtaining their license, they must then re-test every five years to maintain it, regardless of their age and driving history. 2. Augment the new mandatory classes with virtual reality lessons. The VR headsets will ostensibly drill driving skills before they're practiced in a real vehicle. But the real reason they'll be used is to force candidates to experience high fidelity simulations of hitting and killing people while in the vehicle. They will be exposed to the immediate trauma involved in hitting a family in a sedan, or killing a pedestrian who was adhering to the rules of the road. It might also be helpful to force them to watch footage of people being seriously injured and killed in vehicular collisions. This recommendation comes from two hypotheses of mine. As the article states, people overwhelmingly know distracted driving is dangerous, but they can't help themselves. I believe this is because 1) they have no way to activate empathy for the potential danger they present to others, and 2) they do not take driving seriously enough. It is treated as an innate right with loose rules, not a dangerous activity sustained only out of necessity to keep urban society functioning. Unfortunately, this proposal will never happen. I know parts of it are extreme, but I don't see an alternative for fixing such a systemic problem which isn't extreme.

stmfreak 7y ago
LOL, you think children listen to parents when “taught properly”? We taught our kids all the proper behaviors, for years. Loads of examples of consequences, restrictions, lectures, etc. they still grow up and make poor choices. When it comes to acquiring good judgement, for most people there is no teacher like experience.
- throwawaymath 7y ago
  That's a good point. A lot of what you're saying is inevitable for most adolescents due to contemporaneous hormonal and neurological changes they're enduring. To combat that, we could induce accelerated experience using VR simulation.
  - mrguyorama 7y ago
    I play VR driving games, including a steering wheel setup. Wouldn't you know it, I crash a lot in games and drive in excess of 200mph, or drive a 20 ton tractor trailer at 100mph weaving through traffic. If I crash, I reload. Meanwhile, the couple times I've tried to actually drive above 100mph, I've felt incredibly uncomfortable (despite my new car ostensibly being designed for the autobahn and possibly higher than that speed) VR isn't magic. Your brain is pretty good at subtly understanding you won't die if you make a mistake
- coachtrotz 7y ago
  The second suggestion (requiring virtual reality in the class) will expose all drivers to the experience.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
    But it's no more real than the existing videos of accidents in drivers' education classes. If it happened to somebody else, or in a simulation, it's not real. People are inherently solipsistic about such things.
munk-a 7y ago
Once self-driving cars get reliable I'd like to see any driving infractions immediately result in the revocation of a license to drive manually - it'd honestly be a pretty easy and socially acceptable way to roll over to a majority of predictable drivers quickly.
Clubber 7y ago
>Unfortunately, this proposal will never happen. I know parts of it are extreme, but I don't see an alternative for fixing such a systemic problem which isn't extreme. It also won't work. People will do what they want regardless of how many laws we try to pass and how much we try to control them. See: drug war, prohibition, minimum age laws, sin taxes, traffic violations, DUI laws, longer prison terms, etc. I don't know why people don't realize that, even with all the historical evidence. The only thing that works to curb behavior is education. See: Truth commercials, "Now You Know" campaigns on TV in the 80s, MTV's Teen Mom, etc. I think you are attempting education but it smells a lot like authoritarianism. People don't react well to forced education either.
- throwawaymath 7y ago
  Almost all education is forced. Realistically, the problem you're describing also extends to educating people. My proposal attempts to activate a level of empathy and self-preservation. A tolerable amount of trauma is induced in potential drivers to get them to treat it as a necessary evil, not a rite of passage, a right or an enjoyable activity. I think I understand what you mean when you say it sounds authoritarian, but I disagree. It's not authoritarian, it's just a more stringent set of rules on a gating function which already exists. I guess I would agree it sounds dystopian because of the VR simulations that would be involved. But then, it's a measure intended to curb tens of thousands of deaths each year, thousands of which are due to distracted driving in particular.
  - Clubber 7y ago
    So take your idea out a few steps. We now have to buy, install and maintain VR setups for all the DMVs all over the country, then we have to train a bunch of DMV employees not only how to use it, but they in turn must teach citizens how to use it. I'd guess there are about 120 million drivers, so that's 120 million VR "experiences," and that's just the stuff off the top of my head. It doesn't sound very practical, and we don't even know it's effectiveness. I would think we could save a ton of money just buying commercial spots explaining the physics, the statistics and a video of what a wreck looks like in totality. Maybe even better, give companies tax incentives for domestic remote employment that replaces people coming into the office. That would probably hit the 80/20 rule right there.
iudqnolq 7y ago
In California if you apply for a license while under 18 you have to take lessons. Nowadays most people take them online. Anecdotally most new drivers get their license while this would apply to them.
Buttons840 7y ago
Ever played GTA or the like? Most likely people would run into pedestrians on purpose in the simulation out of curiosity. As long as your free to do so.
Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
> In my opinion, a significant amount of irresponsible and incompetent driving stems from the early failures in parents teaching their kids properly. Worse than parents leaving gaps in their lessons, one of my friends was directly told something that is wrong. His parents taught him to stay in the left lane unless his exit is coming up. They taught him to be a left lane hog. > Augment the new mandatory classes with virtual reality lessons. The VR headsets will ostensibly drill driving skills before they're practiced in a real vehicle. Driving in VR is not a good idea because of motion sickness. VR works great for games where your movement in the game world matches the real world (Job Simulator, Beat Saber, etc.), but any game that involves being in a moving vehicle (MS Flight Simulator, any racing game) is a 1-way ticket to nausea. I've got over 200 hours of gameplay in my Vive and still tend to avoid the racing games despite how fun they are because of this. That all said, classes should absolutely be mandatory. They shouldn't just teach general driving habits, but give hands-on experience in emergency maneuvers. Make them have to suddenly avoid an obstacle at 60 mph on wet pavement. If possible, make them try it in both a large SUV and a compact sedan or coupe, ideally without stability/traction control, so they can learn to appreciate the better handling of a smaller car and not jump to an SUV under the illusion that they're safer. In climates that get any amount of snow, emergency braking from both 30 mph and 60 mph should be attempted, not to mention practice turning. It's ridiculous that anybody acts like it's business as normal when driving in snow.
NoPicklez 7y ago
For me and I presume many others this wouldn't work, we see very graphic images more often than we used to and I feel we are more desensitized to graphic images/videos. Everyone knows that driving and looking at your phone is against the law and dangerous, but its a matter of "it won't happen to me" or "I've been doing it for years with no issue" that keeps people doing it. I highly doubt VR will provide enough of a shock factor for people, it will more than likely make it feel like a video game where an accident is perfectly fine. Heck I play in gaming simulators with hyper realistic graphics and crashing doesn't phase me, the body is quite good at realising its not going to actually experience an accident. Someone else here put it well "Everyone thinks they're above average, that bad things will never happen to them, that they're faster and have better reflexes than everyone else." IMO we need to have penalties that are so harsh that they make drivers think twice (Immediate loss of license 3-6 months). The thought of potentially killing someone isn't a big enough incentive to not use your phone, because most of us have never experience it, so why would it happen to me?
- filoleg 7y ago
  I wouldn't underestimate how much more "real" and visceral VR can make things feel, even in its current state where the graphics are not photorealistic at all. Just search on youtube for videos of people letting their relatives and friends attempt playing VR games. I can attest to this myself, and I am somewhat difficult to get shaken up by traditional media like movies/games.
pedantsamaritan 7y ago
I've been wanting the VR lessons to be about a prospective driver experiencing what they do to people. What it's like to be passed too closely by a car, forced to brake and swerve to avoid being hooked by a car stealing the right of way, think a driver sees you and have them drive straight toward you anyway. Maybe the traumatizing one would be a driver running a pedestrian/cyclist over and driving away as you try to keep consciousness 'because they didn't know they hit anyone'.

stmfreak 7y ago

LOL, you think children listen to parents when “taught properly”? We taught our kids all the proper behaviors, for years. Loads of examples of consequences, restrictions, lectures, etc. they still grow up and make poor choices. When it comes to acquiring good judgement, for most people there is no teacher like experience.

throwawaymath 7y ago
That's a good point. A lot of what you're saying is inevitable for most adolescents due to contemporaneous hormonal and neurological changes they're enduring. To combat that, we could induce accelerated experience using VR simulation.
- mrguyorama 7y ago
  I play VR driving games, including a steering wheel setup. Wouldn't you know it, I crash a lot in games and drive in excess of 200mph, or drive a 20 ton tractor trailer at 100mph weaving through traffic. If I crash, I reload. Meanwhile, the couple times I've tried to actually drive above 100mph, I've felt incredibly uncomfortable (despite my new car ostensibly being designed for the autobahn and possibly higher than that speed) VR isn't magic. Your brain is pretty good at subtly understanding you won't die if you make a mistake
coachtrotz 7y ago
The second suggestion (requiring virtual reality in the class) will expose all drivers to the experience.
- SAI_Peregrinus 7y ago
  But it's no more real than the existing videos of accidents in drivers' education classes. If it happened to somebody else, or in a simulation, it's not real. People are inherently solipsistic about such things.

munk-a 7y ago

Once self-driving cars get reliable I'd like to see any driving infractions immediately result in the revocation of a license to drive manually - it'd honestly be a pretty easy and socially acceptable way to roll over to a majority of predictable drivers quickly.

Clubber 7y ago

>Unfortunately, this proposal will never happen. I know parts of it are extreme, but I don't see an alternative for fixing such a systemic problem which isn't extreme. It also won't work. People will do what they want regardless of how many laws we try to pass and how much we try to control them. See: drug war, prohibition, minimum age laws, sin taxes, traffic violations, DUI laws, longer prison terms, etc. I don't know why people don't realize that, even with all the historical evidence. The only thing that works to curb behavior is education. See: Truth commercials, "Now You Know" campaigns on TV in the 80s, MTV's Teen Mom, etc. I think you are attempting education but it smells a lot like authoritarianism. People don't react well to forced education either.

throwawaymath 7y ago
Almost all education is forced. Realistically, the problem you're describing also extends to educating people. My proposal attempts to activate a level of empathy and self-preservation. A tolerable amount of trauma is induced in potential drivers to get them to treat it as a necessary evil, not a rite of passage, a right or an enjoyable activity. I think I understand what you mean when you say it sounds authoritarian, but I disagree. It's not authoritarian, it's just a more stringent set of rules on a gating function which already exists. I guess I would agree it sounds dystopian because of the VR simulations that would be involved. But then, it's a measure intended to curb tens of thousands of deaths each year, thousands of which are due to distracted driving in particular.
- Clubber 7y ago
  So take your idea out a few steps. We now have to buy, install and maintain VR setups for all the DMVs all over the country, then we have to train a bunch of DMV employees not only how to use it, but they in turn must teach citizens how to use it. I'd guess there are about 120 million drivers, so that's 120 million VR "experiences," and that's just the stuff off the top of my head. It doesn't sound very practical, and we don't even know it's effectiveness. I would think we could save a ton of money just buying commercial spots explaining the physics, the statistics and a video of what a wreck looks like in totality. Maybe even better, give companies tax incentives for domestic remote employment that replaces people coming into the office. That would probably hit the 80/20 rule right there.

iudqnolq 7y ago

In California if you apply for a license while under 18 you have to take lessons. Nowadays most people take them online. Anecdotally most new drivers get their license while this would apply to them.

Buttons840 7y ago

Ever played GTA or the like? Most likely people would run into pedestrians on purpose in the simulation out of curiosity. As long as your free to do so.

Sohcahtoa82 7y ago

> In my opinion, a significant amount of irresponsible and incompetent driving stems from the early failures in parents teaching their kids properly. Worse than parents leaving gaps in their lessons, one of my friends was directly told something that is wrong. His parents taught him to stay in the left lane unless his exit is coming up. They taught him to be a left lane hog. > Augment the new mandatory classes with virtual reality lessons. The VR headsets will ostensibly drill driving skills before they're practiced in a real vehicle. Driving in VR is not a good idea because of motion sickness. VR works great for games where your movement in the game world matches the real world (Job Simulator, Beat Saber, etc.), but any game that involves being in a moving vehicle (MS Flight Simulator, any racing game) is a 1-way ticket to nausea. I've got over 200 hours of gameplay in my Vive and still tend to avoid the racing games despite how fun they are because of this. That all said, classes should absolutely be mandatory. They shouldn't just teach general driving habits, but give hands-on experience in emergency maneuvers. Make them have to suddenly avoid an obstacle at 60 mph on wet pavement. If possible, make them try it in both a large SUV and a compact sedan or coupe, ideally without stability/traction control, so they can learn to appreciate the better handling of a smaller car and not jump to an SUV under the illusion that they're safer. In climates that get any amount of snow, emergency braking from both 30 mph and 60 mph should be attempted, not to mention practice turning. It's ridiculous that anybody acts like it's business as normal when driving in snow.

NoPicklez 7y ago

For me and I presume many others this wouldn't work, we see very graphic images more often than we used to and I feel we are more desensitized to graphic images/videos. Everyone knows that driving and looking at your phone is against the law and dangerous, but its a matter of "it won't happen to me" or "I've been doing it for years with no issue" that keeps people doing it. I highly doubt VR will provide enough of a shock factor for people, it will more than likely make it feel like a video game where an accident is perfectly fine. Heck I play in gaming simulators with hyper realistic graphics and crashing doesn't phase me, the body is quite good at realising its not going to actually experience an accident. Someone else here put it well "Everyone thinks they're above average, that bad things will never happen to them, that they're faster and have better reflexes than everyone else." IMO we need to have penalties that are so harsh that they make drivers think twice (Immediate loss of license 3-6 months). The thought of potentially killing someone isn't a big enough incentive to not use your phone, because most of us have never experience it, so why would it happen to me?

filoleg 7y ago
I wouldn't underestimate how much more "real" and visceral VR can make things feel, even in its current state where the graphics are not photorealistic at all. Just search on youtube for videos of people letting their relatives and friends attempt playing VR games. I can attest to this myself, and I am somewhat difficult to get shaken up by traditional media like movies/games.

pedantsamaritan 7y ago

I've been wanting the VR lessons to be about a prospective driver experiencing what they do to people. What it's like to be passed too closely by a car, forced to brake and swerve to avoid being hooked by a car stealing the right of way, think a driver sees you and have them drive straight toward you anyway. Maybe the traumatizing one would be a driver running a pedestrian/cyclist over and driving away as you try to keep consciousness 'because they didn't know they hit anyone'.