9 ms·

A fair warning to anyone looking at placing an order for this. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-1 https://j

A fair warning to anyone looking at placing an order for this. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-1 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-2 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-3 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... The company practices a lot of shady business. Their "phone" that they are so proudly claiming to be releasing to backers cannot place phone calls, the camera doesn't work, and there is no power management. > To turn on your Librem 5 disconnect it from a power source and hold down the power button until it turns on. Currently calling is established (e.g. both sides connect fine) but audio is not routed (no voice heard or sent), this will be a few days until the bug is fixed. They shipped out a "phone" that can't place phone calls. edit: The reason why this is significant is because not being able to make phone calls with a phone is not the type of "bug" that slips through the cracks. The company released the phone despite it not being able to make phone calls, and if this was simply a bug that could be fixed "in a few days", all logic and reasoning suggests that they would have fixed the problem and then shipped the phones to preserve the integrity of their brand and prevent negative brand perception. The fact that they shipped out a phone that can't place phone calls is highly suggestive that there is a bigger issue with the phone and that they are under a time crunch to show the backers that they have accomplished something with all the funding that they have received.

fghtr 7y ago
>They shipped out a "phone" that can't place phone calls. They also shipped a devkit, whose screen did not work. But a software update made it work. Same here. This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse.
- computerex 7y ago
  > This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse. I don't know how you can even begin to support this claim. My phone updates apply a bunch of security patches, which by definition make the phone better and more secure. This is certainly the only "phone" that literally can't place phone calls. If this was a minor issue that could be addressed by a simple software patch in a timely manner, they would have all the reasons to do that and ship the phone after fixing such a glaring flaw.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    If that would be the only reason holding up the shipment, I'd definitely want to receive my early device (that I explicitely opted in for) before it's fixed.
    - computerex 7y ago
      You'd be an exception I think, especially given what the FAQ here states: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ Q: If I receive the Librem 5 from one of the first batches, will I have a fully functional phone? A: Yes! Even the very earliest batches will be capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality. The expectation is that you'd receive a "fully functional phone". Until an update has been released with a fix to the not being able to place calls problem, this expectation is not met.
      - seba_dos1 7y ago
        Judging from all the opinions from actual owners I've seen so far, I definitely wouldn't be. As I said in another thread, that point still stands. Birch will be a fully usable device. Shipping announcement explicitly stated that there will be only a basic, initial release of software that doesn't include everything and that it will improve in time.
        computerex 7y ago
        > Judging from all the opinions from actual owners I've seen so far, I definitely wouldn't be. What opinions? > As I said in another thread, that point still stands. No, the point doesn't stand. Once again, here's a link to purism FAQ: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ It explicitly states this: > Q: If I receive the Librem 5 from one of the first batches, will I have a fully functional phone? > A: Yes! Even the very earliest batches will be capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality. The FAQ says that the earliest batches will be capable smartphones and will have core cell phone functionality. Purism says that phones from "one of the first batches" will be capable smartphones will all core cell phone functionality. There is no way you can try and do mental gymnastics to justify your apparent belief that purism delivered on this. There is a huge difference between a device requiring some polish and finishing touches and delivering a phone: 1. That can't make phone calls 2. Has no power management so the battery lasts less than an hour 3. Doesn't have working cameras 4. Can't be charged while powered on The device, far from being a "capable smartphone" is wholly unusable in its current state. Simply contradicting the facts and providing no additional context or reasoning does not an argument make.
jolmg 7y ago
Seems like it can be fixed with a software update, though. A few days of waiting doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It's not like the phone is going to be forever unusable.
- computerex 7y ago
  If it was an issue that could be fixed "in a few days" why wouldn't they simply fix the issue and then release the phone? Or are you suggesting that not being able to make phone calls on a phone is something that slipped through their testing? It has been a "few days" since their announcement and of course this "bug" hasn't been fixed. It seems less like a bug and more like a major design flaw/hurdle.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    > and of course this "bug" hasn't been fixed You can hear call audio if you use CI images since a few days ago already. Last rough edges are being sorted out right now before finally packaging it all into PureOS.
    - computerex 7y ago
      The issue is that you can neither hear call audio nor transmit any audio, and it'll be fixed when the fix is in the hands of the customers that got the device.
      - seba_dos1 7y ago
        Yes, that's the issue I'm talking about. It already works both ways on CI images, which every customer can grab and install themselves - it simply has packages taken directly from git, as opposed to explicit releases from regular images. I have said that because of: >It seems less like a bug and more like a major design flaw/hurdle. to show that it's not true.
        computerex 7y ago
peschu 7y ago
haters gonna hate ;-)
bluGill 7y ago
They have been upfront about that from what I can tell. They are only shipping phones to those who are either working on making it work, or those who have indicated willingness to accept the flaws to be first. There is every reason to believe it will work. There are things to not like about the company, but releasing like this is not one.
- wander_homer 7y ago
  > They have been upfront about that from what I can tell. Not really: > Q: If I receive the Librem 5 from one of the first batches, will I have a fully functional phone? > A: Yes! Even the very earliest batches will be capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality. https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    That point still stands. It will be a capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality.
    - computerex 7y ago
      "core cell phone functionality" includes making a call. Has the official update with a fix been sent out yet?
    - wander_homer 7y ago
      No, it doesn't. The question wasn't whether this phone at one point after receiving it becomes a fully functional phone, it was explicitly asked if it's a fully functional phone when they receive it. And Putism's answer was yes. Purism also wrote in earlier blog posts that the phone in its current state of course can make phone calls. For example they wrote more than one month before anyone outside of Purism got their phone: > In the Wild: People have been using their Librem 5 while traveling, working and relaxing to connect to WiFi hotspots, browse the internet, use social media, play games and yes… to call and send text messages. They explicitly tried very hard to not make it sound like the device in its current state is basically completely unusable as a mobile device or phone. If someone actually expected a device which has no standby mode, lasts less than an hour on battery, has a smaller battery capacity than advertised, can't be charged reliably while turned on, can't make phone calls, can't send/receive messages reliably, ... then that's because they listened to the so called haters and trolls, not Purism.

fghtr 7y ago

>They shipped out a "phone" that can't place phone calls. They also shipped a devkit, whose screen did not work. But a software update made it work. Same here. This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse.

computerex 7y ago
> This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse. I don't know how you can even begin to support this claim. My phone updates apply a bunch of security patches, which by definition make the phone better and more secure. This is certainly the only "phone" that literally can't place phone calls. If this was a minor issue that could be addressed by a simple software patch in a timely manner, they would have all the reasons to do that and ship the phone after fixing such a glaring flaw.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  If that would be the only reason holding up the shipment, I'd definitely want to receive my early device (that I explicitely opted in for) before it's fixed.
  - computerex 7y ago
    You'd be an exception I think, especially given what the FAQ here states: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ Q: If I receive the Librem 5 from one of the first batches, will I have a fully functional phone? A: Yes! Even the very earliest batches will be capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality. The expectation is that you'd receive a "fully functional phone". Until an update has been released with a fix to the not being able to place calls problem, this expectation is not met.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      Judging from all the opinions from actual owners I've seen so far, I definitely wouldn't be. As I said in another thread, that point still stands. Birch will be a fully usable device. Shipping announcement explicitly stated that there will be only a basic, initial release of software that doesn't include everything and that it will improve in time.
      - computerex 7y ago
        > Judging from all the opinions from actual owners I've seen so far, I definitely wouldn't be. What opinions? > As I said in another thread, that point still stands. No, the point doesn't stand. Once again, here's a link to purism FAQ: https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ It explicitly states this: > Q: If I receive the Librem 5 from one of the first batches, will I have a fully functional phone? > A: Yes! Even the very earliest batches will be capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality. The FAQ says that the earliest batches will be capable smartphones and will have core cell phone functionality. Purism says that phones from "one of the first batches" will be capable smartphones will all core cell phone functionality. There is no way you can try and do mental gymnastics to justify your apparent belief that purism delivered on this. There is a huge difference between a device requiring some polish and finishing touches and delivering a phone: 1. That can't make phone calls 2. Has no power management so the battery lasts less than an hour 3. Doesn't have working cameras 4. Can't be charged while powered on The device, far from being a "capable smartphone" is wholly unusable in its current state. Simply contradicting the facts and providing no additional context or reasoning does not an argument make.

jolmg 7y ago

Seems like it can be fixed with a software update, though. A few days of waiting doesn't seem like that big of a deal. It's not like the phone is going to be forever unusable.

computerex 7y ago
If it was an issue that could be fixed "in a few days" why wouldn't they simply fix the issue and then release the phone? Or are you suggesting that not being able to make phone calls on a phone is something that slipped through their testing? It has been a "few days" since their announcement and of course this "bug" hasn't been fixed. It seems less like a bug and more like a major design flaw/hurdle.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  > and of course this "bug" hasn't been fixed You can hear call audio if you use CI images since a few days ago already. Last rough edges are being sorted out right now before finally packaging it all into PureOS.
  - computerex 7y ago
    The issue is that you can neither hear call audio nor transmit any audio, and it'll be fixed when the fix is in the hands of the customers that got the device.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      Yes, that's the issue I'm talking about. It already works both ways on CI images, which every customer can grab and install themselves - it simply has packages taken directly from git, as opposed to explicit releases from regular images. I have said that because of: >It seems less like a bug and more like a major design flaw/hurdle. to show that it's not true.
      - computerex 7y ago

peschu 7y ago

haters gonna hate ;-)

bluGill 7y ago

They have been upfront about that from what I can tell. They are only shipping phones to those who are either working on making it work, or those who have indicated willingness to accept the flaws to be first. There is every reason to believe it will work. There are things to not like about the company, but releasing like this is not one.

wander_homer 7y ago
> They have been upfront about that from what I can tell. Not really: > Q: If I receive the Librem 5 from one of the first batches, will I have a fully functional phone? > A: Yes! Even the very earliest batches will be capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality. https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/ https://puri.sm/posts/librem-5-batch-faq/
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  That point still stands. It will be a capable smartphone, including a modern web browser and core cell phone functionality.
  - computerex 7y ago
    "core cell phone functionality" includes making a call. Has the official update with a fix been sent out yet?
  - wander_homer 7y ago
    No, it doesn't. The question wasn't whether this phone at one point after receiving it becomes a fully functional phone, it was explicitly asked if it's a fully functional phone when they receive it. And Putism's answer was yes. Purism also wrote in earlier blog posts that the phone in its current state of course can make phone calls. For example they wrote more than one month before anyone outside of Purism got their phone: > In the Wild: People have been using their Librem 5 while traveling, working and relaxing to connect to WiFi hotspots, browse the internet, use social media, play games and yes… to call and send text messages. They explicitly tried very hard to not make it sound like the device in its current state is basically completely unusable as a mobile device or phone. If someone actually expected a device which has no standby mode, lasts less than an hour on battery, has a smaller battery capacity than advertised, can't be charged reliably while turned on, can't make phone calls, can't send/receive messages reliably, ... then that's because they listened to the so called haters and trolls, not Purism.