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I think the idea behind purism is to also choose hardware with minimal or no problem firmware that you don't have insight into. Given how much software out of

I think the idea behind purism is to also choose hardware with minimal or no problem firmware that you don't have insight into. Given how much software out of our control seems to run on the communication hardware (the actual baseband chips), if they can give control over that it's a real benefit over just throwing an open OS on the existing hardware for phones.

criddell 7y ago
Are they the first company to ship a phone with an open source baseband OS?
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  My understanding is that's essentially impossible, but they're isolating the cellular modem into a detachable peripheral so it has no deep access into your device.
  - criddell 7y ago
    Why is it essentially impossible? Compared to the rest of the phone that seems like a relatively small thing.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      You can count the whole world's proprietary implementers of cellular tech on one hand. Compared to the rest of the phone, the rest of the phone is insignificant.
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      Because no such baseband module exists.
      - criddell 7y ago
        Is that one module more complicated than the entire rest of the phone that the Purism team has already put together?
        newnewpdro 7y ago
        Yes, Purism doesn't (and can't) make such components, they're a system integrator at best. Intel recently sold their cellular modem division to Apple for $1B. That would be an example organization capable of producing a baseband. https://apnews.com/c77b1824b5094ac3ac82f6836134f592 https://apnews.com/c77b1824b5094ac3ac82f6836134f592
    - voxic11 7y ago
      The FCC approved baseband chips run closed source software and do not have documentation for writing your own. So you need to reverse engineer the chip, write your own software for it, and reflash it. But after reflashing it will no longer be FCC approved because some of the FCC requirements were implemented in software. So it will need to go through the FCC approval process again which can be very expensive. The alternative would be to create your own chip from scratch but that is even more expensive.
    - ska 7y ago
      You can't ship it without regulatory approval. That's unlikely to happen for an open baseband, because it facilitates abuse (at least, in the eyes of the regulatory bodies).
    - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
      It's a combination of there not being that many companies that produce one and none of them being particularly open about it, and the carriers not wanting them to be because they're stodgy bureaucracies that don't like to be embarrassed when things make it easier for people to find security vulnerabilities in their networks. So we're stuck with isolating it instead. At least you can make sure it has no access to your stored data, camera or microphone.

criddell 7y ago

Are they the first company to ship a phone with an open source baseband OS?

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
My understanding is that's essentially impossible, but they're isolating the cellular modem into a detachable peripheral so it has no deep access into your device.
- criddell 7y ago
  Why is it essentially impossible? Compared to the rest of the phone that seems like a relatively small thing.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    You can count the whole world's proprietary implementers of cellular tech on one hand. Compared to the rest of the phone, the rest of the phone is insignificant.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    Because no such baseband module exists.
    - criddell 7y ago
      Is that one module more complicated than the entire rest of the phone that the Purism team has already put together?
      - newnewpdro 7y ago
        Yes, Purism doesn't (and can't) make such components, they're a system integrator at best. Intel recently sold their cellular modem division to Apple for $1B. That would be an example organization capable of producing a baseband. https://apnews.com/c77b1824b5094ac3ac82f6836134f592 https://apnews.com/c77b1824b5094ac3ac82f6836134f592
  - voxic11 7y ago
    The FCC approved baseband chips run closed source software and do not have documentation for writing your own. So you need to reverse engineer the chip, write your own software for it, and reflash it. But after reflashing it will no longer be FCC approved because some of the FCC requirements were implemented in software. So it will need to go through the FCC approval process again which can be very expensive. The alternative would be to create your own chip from scratch but that is even more expensive.
  - ska 7y ago
    You can't ship it without regulatory approval. That's unlikely to happen for an open baseband, because it facilitates abuse (at least, in the eyes of the regulatory bodies).
  - AnthonyMouse 7y ago
    It's a combination of there not being that many companies that produce one and none of them being particularly open about it, and the carriers not wanting them to be because they're stodgy bureaucracies that don't like to be embarrassed when things make it easier for people to find security vulnerabilities in their networks. So we're stuck with isolating it instead. At least you can make sure it has no access to your stored data, camera or microphone.