13 ms·

Librem 5 USA

97 points by kgwxd 7y ago

katmannthree 7y ago
Wow, this version is $1,999, and if you've pre-ordered you can upgrade to the US-produced model for an extra $1,300. Does this pricing accurately reflect the increased cost of producing everything but the chassis in the US?
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  No, this is a desperate attempt to raise money.
  - alfalfasprout 7y ago
    Sure, but there is a significant increase in costs to produce everything in the US. I've been shocked by how certain production processes are simply super difficult to find in the US. Even things as simple as injection molding can cost 2-3x as much. Add on shipping costs, etc. within the US and you can easily add several hundred dollars or more to the cost of this product. That's especially true given the low volume.
    - computerex 7y ago
      Be that as it may, with the problems purism has been having in developing this phone this announcement points to a desperate attempt at getting cash. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-1 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-2 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-3 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri...
      - newnewpdro 7y ago
        Right, it's obvious, $2k per sucker for something they don't have to make until Q3 2020. Sounds like an interest-free loan to me. I suspect they don't have the cash on hand for manufacturing the pending existing librem 5 orders, which unless I'm mistaken requires some redesign work to fix the thermal issues.
  - lostgame 7y ago
    Pricing something this high is not a way to make money. Even at 3/4 of this ludicrous price I bet they would sell far more units.
- johnnycarcin 7y ago
  While I love the idea, that price is totally insane. I don't see how anyone would be willing to pay that much for what is essentially a beta device. It seems that it is quite difficult to manufacture these devices, at a reasonable cost, without help from the big names :(
  - detaro 7y ago
    On the other hand, many people probably think the same about the "standard" Librem 5 price. The people getting them already do so because they want the idea to have a chance, not because they're cheap or directly good value for money. Some might say "it's double than what I'd spend on an Android, but that's worth it" about the normal price, wouldn't be surprised if for others the reference frame is "2x iPhone" instead.
- hwbehrens 7y ago
  There are probably several factors at play here. First, not all of the parts are necessarily produced in the USA - the PCBA is produced there, and the parts are assembled there, but the parts themselves are likely procured elsewhere. Even still, this greatly complicates the kind of supply chain attack this is meant to prevent, because you have to compromise individual components that you hope will end up in the device you're targeting. Second, they already had these facilities in place in the US for prototyping purposes. Thus, the up-front cost investment for setting up a facility in the US is much lower than usual, so they can set a lower price than others might be able to offer. Third, there is probably a capacity constraint at that facility; the price chosen was likely selected to suppress demand below that threshold, not purely based on relative production cost. Finally, although I have only limited experience (n=2) with cross-shopping electronics manufacturing between the US and China, a 3x overhead is actually substantially lower than I would expect; we were seeing ~6-10x increases for manufacturing and assembly. This could be because their production facility (which, again, already exists) would otherwise be sitting idle. I can't speak to the health of their business (a sibling comment suggested this was a "money grab"), but the numbers seem pretty reasonable for what you're getting, overall. Note that this is not targeting the same crowd who buys "Made in USA" t-shirts to support the local economy; the audience is more likely to be security wonks who are already concerned about supply chain attacks.
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
    >a 3x overhead is actually substantially lower than I would expect; we were seeing ~6-10x increases for manufacturing and assembly How many units were you building/shipping? And was your QA on-site/in-country?
  - bluGill 7y ago
    I think the real target is - or should be - CIA, and NSA. People who have security needs that China will never agree to. The hardware switches help play into their needs: shut the chips off in situations where they are a concern. Pursim should have a standing offer: we will make your phone on a day scheduled well in advance and allow your auditors in the factory to watch over the process. At an extra cost of course, but I think this is something they could offer easily enough and it would be very helpful to those most paranoid about security. Dealing with government contracts isn't easy though.
- unlinked_dll 7y ago
  No, it reflects the price of low volume manufacturing.
  - newnewpdro 7y ago
    Low volume is a constant across their existing offering and this "made in usa" offering, which if you've been following the librem 5 story at all you'd already know is unnecessarily overpriced. There's no need for them to limit demand of the USA model with a higher price, the demand for this phone is very low in general considering it's not even usable as a phone. Edit: "Librems are heavily overpriced but that is because Purism seemingly never tried to get better deal and the South San Francisco partner abused this so that is why Purism Librems are double the price they should be." - Zlatan Todoric former Purism CTO [0] [0] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T...
- swebs 7y ago
  I seriously doubt it. It's most likely to maximize margins from their first few low volume supply runs as they begin to scale up.
- jammygit 7y ago
  Having just come from seeing Black Friday sales: is it actually 2k, or is it “2k” with regular sales making it the actual price (which we will see before Christmas)?
uncletaco 7y ago
Imagine wanting a privacy-centric anything that was Made in the USA
- azinman2 7y ago
  As opposed to China?
  - daxorid 7y ago
    China's MSS can't indiscriminately shoot my dog and throw a flash-bang into my child's crib, but the FBI can. I'd rather gamble with the evil oppressive government that doesn't have jurisdiction here, than the evil oppressive government that does.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- ISL 7y ago
  That is easy to imagine.
- oarsinsync 7y ago
  For those downvoting, I suspect the point is that we've had leaks demonstrating that the US government is capable of compromising hardware devices (e.g. networking equipment). Which makes their concerns about Huawei all the more understandable. They know the risks because they've performed the attacks themselves.
  - ISL 7y ago
    There are many countries where I would expect a conscientious citizen to make the public aware of such a compromise. The United States is among them; Lavabit's actions provide precedent.
ir77 7y ago
digression: christ, what font are they using? the undersized letter 't' in that text hurts my head just looking at it, barely making the text readable. i couldn't even finish a post and get the gist from the comments here. comment: doesn't it reflect poorly on librem to even offer this option? for a hw company whose sole market shtick is to offer hw/sw privacy they're now implying that the majority of their hw can be compromised and if you really want the uncompromising security you should get the 4x more expensive option made in the USA? either they should completely eliminate the made in china option or they really should try to spin this a different way, because it reflects absolutely horribly on them.
- danShumway 7y ago
  It's Libre Baskerville: https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/libre-baskerville https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/libre-baskerville I find Baskerville pretty readable. Is it the same font you're seeing on the page? I wonder if something caused your browser to show a fallback instead. I think it reflects that all phones made in China have the potential to be compromised by malicious actors. That risk shouldn't be in most people's threat model, and if you're comparing the Librem to a standard Android phone you're still getting a substantial privacy bump just from hardware kill switches alone. If you have a very specific threat model, Purism is now one of the few companies that offers made-in-US phones, which (in theory) fills an underserved niche. But most people who want a Librem 5 should get the normal phone. If you have control over the entire assembly process, that eliminates a class of security risks that otherwise need to be addressed with tamper-evident firmware or by checking for bugs and extra components after the phone is assembled. But that drives costs up substantially, so nobody assembles phones in the US -- not even companies like Apple. Remember that security isn't binary. Different segments even within the privacy community need different levels of security.
  - ir77 7y ago
    why shouldn't, in this case, security be binary? either there is a threat or there isn't. if someone in china is adding additional monitoring malware to librem's phones then isn't the whole privacy/security thing out the window? either they believe in their chinese supply chain or they don't. and it's not like their usa manufacturing is done in-house by librem so they still don't have 'control over the entire assembly process" because they depend on a 3rd party to make their boards for them.
icefog 7y ago
I'm unsold on spending $2,000 or even $700 on a new phone, but I also care deeply about privacy and security. Is there any strong reason to choose "Librem" over a cheaper Android running LineageOS or GrapheneOS? They can be purchased for a fraction of the cost and have been quite reliable for me.
- fghtr 7y ago
  Why Librem 5 costs that much: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: quote from the Purism forum: "First hardware kill switches; first replaceable cellular modem and Wi-Fi/ Bluetooth (on M.2 cards); first smart card reader (for 2FF OpenPGP card); first running 100% free software; only current phone to offer convergence as PC without special hardware" https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elephant-or-the-first-in-a-wave/6883 https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elepha...
  - computerex 7y ago
    It's probably also the only "phone" that can't place phone calls.
    - duskwuff 7y ago
      This isn't hyperbole. The speaker used to not work during voice calls: > The other [problem] is that call audio isn't routed to the speaker. I haven't personally hit this, I'm just using a data-only SIM and can't remember the last time I actually used a phone to make a voice call. https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/ https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/
    - lostgame 7y ago
      Not sure why the downvotes, here - it’s incredibly valid that a phone of this price should be able to place a normal phone call - it also should’ve been a priority for the developers.
      - 7y ago
thehoomanist 7y ago
Product value prop here: get mediocre hardware with unstable software in a year for the price of 2 and 1/2 iPhone 11 Pro. I love the intention, but this is a LOT to ask: if there's a good way to make a USA-made phone fail, this is it.
computerex 7y ago
A fair warning to anyone looking at placing an order for this. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-1 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-2 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-3 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... The company practices a lot of shady business. Their "phone" that they are so proudly claiming to be releasing to backers cannot place phone calls, the camera doesn't work, and there is no power management. > To turn on your Librem 5 disconnect it from a power source and hold down the power button until it turns on. Currently calling is established (e.g. both sides connect fine) but audio is not routed (no voice heard or sent), this will be a few days until the bug is fixed. They shipped out a "phone" that can't place phone calls. edit: The reason why this is significant is because not being able to make phone calls with a phone is not the type of "bug" that slips through the cracks. The company released the phone despite it not being able to make phone calls, and if this was simply a bug that could be fixed "in a few days", all logic and reasoning suggests that they would have fixed the problem and then shipped the phones to preserve the integrity of their brand and prevent negative brand perception. The fact that they shipped out a phone that can't place phone calls is highly suggestive that there is a bigger issue with the phone and that they are under a time crunch to show the backers that they have accomplished something with all the funding that they have received.
- fghtr 7y ago
  >They shipped out a "phone" that can't place phone calls. They also shipped a devkit, whose screen did not work. But a software update made it work. Same here. This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse.
  - computerex 7y ago
    > This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse. I don't know how you can even begin to support this claim. My phone updates apply a bunch of security patches, which by definition make the phone better and more secure. This is certainly the only "phone" that literally can't place phone calls. If this was a minor issue that could be addressed by a simple software patch in a timely manner, they would have all the reasons to do that and ship the phone after fixing such a glaring flaw.
shmerl 7y ago
Is anyone working on the Linux Vulkan driver for Vivante GPU that's used in Librem 5?
bitL 7y ago
What's the native development framework for Librem 5 apps? I see they support web apps, but what do they use for native apps?
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  Just a regular GTK+ for native experience - or basically any GNU/Linux toolkit that works with Wayland when interpreting "native" technically.
- mattl 7y ago
  The phone runs GNOME, so GTK+
  - TingPing 7y ago
    It does not run GNOME, it uses some GNOME applications.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      It pretty much does run GNOME, just with its one component (GNOME Shell) replaced by phoc and phosh.
- mike-cardwell 7y ago
  It's a computer running GNU Linux. You install GNU Linux apps on it.

97 points by kgwxd 7y ago

Wow, this version is $1,999, and if you've pre-ordered you can upgrade to the US-produced model for an extra $1,300. Does this pricing accurately reflect the increased cost of producing everything but the chassis in the US?

newnewpdro 7y ago
No, this is a desperate attempt to raise money.
- alfalfasprout 7y ago
  Sure, but there is a significant increase in costs to produce everything in the US. I've been shocked by how certain production processes are simply super difficult to find in the US. Even things as simple as injection molding can cost 2-3x as much. Add on shipping costs, etc. within the US and you can easily add several hundred dollars or more to the cost of this product. That's especially true given the low volume.
  - computerex 7y ago
    Be that as it may, with the problems purism has been having in developing this phone this announcement points to a desperate attempt at getting cash. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-1 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-2 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-3 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri...
    - newnewpdro 7y ago
      Right, it's obvious, $2k per sucker for something they don't have to make until Q3 2020. Sounds like an interest-free loan to me. I suspect they don't have the cash on hand for manufacturing the pending existing librem 5 orders, which unless I'm mistaken requires some redesign work to fix the thermal issues.
- lostgame 7y ago
  Pricing something this high is not a way to make money. Even at 3/4 of this ludicrous price I bet they would sell far more units.
johnnycarcin 7y ago
While I love the idea, that price is totally insane. I don't see how anyone would be willing to pay that much for what is essentially a beta device. It seems that it is quite difficult to manufacture these devices, at a reasonable cost, without help from the big names :(
- detaro 7y ago
  On the other hand, many people probably think the same about the "standard" Librem 5 price. The people getting them already do so because they want the idea to have a chance, not because they're cheap or directly good value for money. Some might say "it's double than what I'd spend on an Android, but that's worth it" about the normal price, wouldn't be surprised if for others the reference frame is "2x iPhone" instead.
hwbehrens 7y ago
There are probably several factors at play here. First, not all of the parts are necessarily produced in the USA - the PCBA is produced there, and the parts are assembled there, but the parts themselves are likely procured elsewhere. Even still, this greatly complicates the kind of supply chain attack this is meant to prevent, because you have to compromise individual components that you hope will end up in the device you're targeting. Second, they already had these facilities in place in the US for prototyping purposes. Thus, the up-front cost investment for setting up a facility in the US is much lower than usual, so they can set a lower price than others might be able to offer. Third, there is probably a capacity constraint at that facility; the price chosen was likely selected to suppress demand below that threshold, not purely based on relative production cost. Finally, although I have only limited experience (n=2) with cross-shopping electronics manufacturing between the US and China, a 3x overhead is actually substantially lower than I would expect; we were seeing ~6-10x increases for manufacturing and assembly. This could be because their production facility (which, again, already exists) would otherwise be sitting idle. I can't speak to the health of their business (a sibling comment suggested this was a "money grab"), but the numbers seem pretty reasonable for what you're getting, overall. Note that this is not targeting the same crowd who buys "Made in USA" t-shirts to support the local economy; the audience is more likely to be security wonks who are already concerned about supply chain attacks.
- unlinked_dll 7y ago
  >a 3x overhead is actually substantially lower than I would expect; we were seeing ~6-10x increases for manufacturing and assembly How many units were you building/shipping? And was your QA on-site/in-country?
- bluGill 7y ago
  I think the real target is - or should be - CIA, and NSA. People who have security needs that China will never agree to. The hardware switches help play into their needs: shut the chips off in situations where they are a concern. Pursim should have a standing offer: we will make your phone on a day scheduled well in advance and allow your auditors in the factory to watch over the process. At an extra cost of course, but I think this is something they could offer easily enough and it would be very helpful to those most paranoid about security. Dealing with government contracts isn't easy though.
unlinked_dll 7y ago
No, it reflects the price of low volume manufacturing.
- newnewpdro 7y ago
  Low volume is a constant across their existing offering and this "made in usa" offering, which if you've been following the librem 5 story at all you'd already know is unnecessarily overpriced. There's no need for them to limit demand of the USA model with a higher price, the demand for this phone is very low in general considering it's not even usable as a phone. Edit: "Librems are heavily overpriced but that is because Purism seemingly never tried to get better deal and the South San Francisco partner abused this so that is why Purism Librems are double the price they should be." - Zlatan Todoric former Purism CTO [0] [0] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-Todoric-Interview https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Zlatan-T...
swebs 7y ago
I seriously doubt it. It's most likely to maximize margins from their first few low volume supply runs as they begin to scale up.
jammygit 7y ago
Having just come from seeing Black Friday sales: is it actually 2k, or is it “2k” with regular sales making it the actual price (which we will see before Christmas)?

uncletaco 7y ago

Imagine wanting a privacy-centric anything that was Made in the USA

azinman2 7y ago
As opposed to China?
- daxorid 7y ago
  China's MSS can't indiscriminately shoot my dog and throw a flash-bang into my child's crib, but the FBI can. I'd rather gamble with the evil oppressive government that doesn't have jurisdiction here, than the evil oppressive government that does.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
ISL 7y ago
That is easy to imagine.
oarsinsync 7y ago
For those downvoting, I suspect the point is that we've had leaks demonstrating that the US government is capable of compromising hardware devices (e.g. networking equipment). Which makes their concerns about Huawei all the more understandable. They know the risks because they've performed the attacks themselves.
- ISL 7y ago
  There are many countries where I would expect a conscientious citizen to make the public aware of such a compromise. The United States is among them; Lavabit's actions provide precedent.

ir77 7y ago

digression: christ, what font are they using? the undersized letter 't' in that text hurts my head just looking at it, barely making the text readable. i couldn't even finish a post and get the gist from the comments here. comment: doesn't it reflect poorly on librem to even offer this option? for a hw company whose sole market shtick is to offer hw/sw privacy they're now implying that the majority of their hw can be compromised and if you really want the uncompromising security you should get the 4x more expensive option made in the USA? either they should completely eliminate the made in china option or they really should try to spin this a different way, because it reflects absolutely horribly on them.

danShumway 7y ago
It's Libre Baskerville: https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/libre-baskerville https://www.fontsquirrel.com/fonts/libre-baskerville I find Baskerville pretty readable. Is it the same font you're seeing on the page? I wonder if something caused your browser to show a fallback instead. I think it reflects that all phones made in China have the potential to be compromised by malicious actors. That risk shouldn't be in most people's threat model, and if you're comparing the Librem to a standard Android phone you're still getting a substantial privacy bump just from hardware kill switches alone. If you have a very specific threat model, Purism is now one of the few companies that offers made-in-US phones, which (in theory) fills an underserved niche. But most people who want a Librem 5 should get the normal phone. If you have control over the entire assembly process, that eliminates a class of security risks that otherwise need to be addressed with tamper-evident firmware or by checking for bugs and extra components after the phone is assembled. But that drives costs up substantially, so nobody assembles phones in the US -- not even companies like Apple. Remember that security isn't binary. Different segments even within the privacy community need different levels of security.
- ir77 7y ago
  why shouldn't, in this case, security be binary? either there is a threat or there isn't. if someone in china is adding additional monitoring malware to librem's phones then isn't the whole privacy/security thing out the window? either they believe in their chinese supply chain or they don't. and it's not like their usa manufacturing is done in-house by librem so they still don't have 'control over the entire assembly process" because they depend on a 3rd party to make their boards for them.

icefog 7y ago

I'm unsold on spending $2,000 or even $700 on a new phone, but I also care deeply about privacy and security. Is there any strong reason to choose "Librem" over a cheaper Android running LineageOS or GrapheneOS? They can be purchased for a fraction of the cost and have been quite reliable for me.

fghtr 7y ago
Why Librem 5 costs that much: https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ https://puri.sm/posts/breaking-ground/ Upd: quote from the Purism forum: "First hardware kill switches; first replaceable cellular modem and Wi-Fi/ Bluetooth (on M.2 cards); first smart card reader (for 2FF OpenPGP card); first running 100% free software; only current phone to offer convergence as PC without special hardware" https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elephant-or-the-first-in-a-wave/6883 https://forums.puri.sm/t/will-the-librem-5-be-a-white-elepha...
- computerex 7y ago
  It's probably also the only "phone" that can't place phone calls.
  - duskwuff 7y ago
    This isn't hyperbole. The speaker used to not work during voice calls: > The other [problem] is that call audio isn't routed to the speaker. I haven't personally hit this, I'm just using a data-only SIM and can't remember the last time I actually used a phone to make a voice call. https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/ https://azdle.net/2019/11/comparing-apples-and-gnomes/
  - lostgame 7y ago
    Not sure why the downvotes, here - it’s incredibly valid that a phone of this price should be able to place a normal phone call - it also should’ve been a priority for the developers.
    - 7y ago

thehoomanist 7y ago

Product value prop here: get mediocre hardware with unstable software in a year for the price of 2 and 1/2 iPhone 11 Pro. I love the intention, but this is a LOT to ask: if there's a good way to make a USA-made phone fail, this is it.

computerex 7y ago

A fair warning to anyone looking at placing an order for this. https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-1 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-2 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-purism-and-the-librem-5-part-3 https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri... The company practices a lot of shady business. Their "phone" that they are so proudly claiming to be releasing to backers cannot place phone calls, the camera doesn't work, and there is no power management. > To turn on your Librem 5 disconnect it from a power source and hold down the power button until it turns on. Currently calling is established (e.g. both sides connect fine) but audio is not routed (no voice heard or sent), this will be a few days until the bug is fixed. They shipped out a "phone" that can't place phone calls. edit: The reason why this is significant is because not being able to make phone calls with a phone is not the type of "bug" that slips through the cracks. The company released the phone despite it not being able to make phone calls, and if this was simply a bug that could be fixed "in a few days", all logic and reasoning suggests that they would have fixed the problem and then shipped the phones to preserve the integrity of their brand and prevent negative brand perception. The fact that they shipped out a phone that can't place phone calls is highly suggestive that there is a bigger issue with the phone and that they are under a time crunch to show the backers that they have accomplished something with all the funding that they have received.

fghtr 7y ago
>They shipped out a "phone" that can't place phone calls. They also shipped a devkit, whose screen did not work. But a software update made it work. Same here. This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse.
- computerex 7y ago
  > This is the only phone, where updates make it better, not worse. I don't know how you can even begin to support this claim. My phone updates apply a bunch of security patches, which by definition make the phone better and more secure. This is certainly the only "phone" that literally can't place phone calls. If this was a minor issue that could be addressed by a simple software patch in a timely manner, they would have all the reasons to do that and ship the phone after fixing such a glaring flaw.

shmerl 7y ago

Is anyone working on the Linux Vulkan driver for Vivante GPU that's used in Librem 5?

bitL 7y ago

What's the native development framework for Librem 5 apps? I see they support web apps, but what do they use for native apps?

seba_dos1 7y ago
Just a regular GTK+ for native experience - or basically any GNU/Linux toolkit that works with Wayland when interpreting "native" technically.
mattl 7y ago
The phone runs GNOME, so GTK+
- TingPing 7y ago
  It does not run GNOME, it uses some GNOME applications.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    It pretty much does run GNOME, just with its one component (GNOME Shell) replaced by phoc and phosh.
mike-cardwell 7y ago
It's a computer running GNU Linux. You install GNU Linux apps on it.