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> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. While I use FF, partly for moral reasons, m

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. While I use FF, partly for moral reasons, my experience is average and I saw many flaws and bugs. I prefer the features of Vivaldi, which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google. > STOP USING google SEARCH! While my default search engine is Duck Duck Go, I don't recommend it to friends and relatives. My experience is that searching in any language but English gives very poor results. Other patterns also need to be redirected to another search engine, so it's not a a smooth migration. My estimates are that 50% of my searches are for DDG, 25% for Google, and 25% for others (Bing, Qwant), not counting specialized searches like Wikipedia. That is enough to prevent being profiled.

elbrian 7y ago
> I saw many flaws and bugs. Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?
- nkw 7y ago
  So I'm not the above poster, but for me the one that killed my workflow was this still-open, 17-year-old bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195361 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195361
  - darkwater 7y ago
    And how on Earth is that a deal breaker? Selecting text from disabled fields?
    - kuschku 7y ago
      a lot of websites assume that you’re using chrome and show content you have to copy in disabled text fields (with some styling applied)
      - darkwater 7y ago
        Never found one and, if I did, I don't recall and that's a sign that, at least for me, is a non-issue.
        kuschku 7y ago
        I had 3 websites in the last 2 weeks (admin UI of self-hosted tools) where this issue was present, but I patched it out.
  - amatecha 7y ago
    That's not really a bug - I'd say that's a product design choice. I'm surprised the ticket is still open, tbh.
    - tracker1 7y ago
      The reason you'd want to select text is to select text... same inside a text field disabled or not as outside a form field. Unless you think they should just disable all text outside an active form field?
      - amatecha 7y ago
        I'm not saying I agree with the implementation -- I think the text should indeed be selectable. But it's not what I would call a bug. I looked at the Bugzilla ticket type system and it should be an "enhancement" or "task", not a "defect".
- Avamander 7y ago
  https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594876 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594876 - 9 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210727 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210727 - 4 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1010527 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1010527 - 6 years old Not to mention the weird random full-blown crashes that occur when I try to use it that I can't reproduce, no point in opening an issue for those.
  - PetahNZ 7y ago
    Back when I did use FF, anytime I actually tried to report bugs I would just get the canned response, "disable your plugins and reset your user profile".
  - CamperBob2 7y ago
    It's obvious that most of those random crashes are caused by memory starvation. They should have all the telemetry they need to understand and fix it, if only by popping up an error message saying 'Not enough memory to render this page' or even Safari's maddening version of the same message ('A problem occurred with this web page so it was reloaded.') The only explanation is that they don't give a crap. Very frustrating. Reading the bug thread cited above, it may even be a case of, "I was able to get Chrome to crash under similar circumstances, therefore it is conforming behavior. WONTFIX."
  - usr1106 7y ago
    > Not to mention the weird random full-blown crashes that occur when I try to use it that I can't reproduce, no point in opening an issue for those What platform are you using? I have used FF exclusively for 10+ years on Linux. Ubuntu and OpenSUSE every day. Nouveau and i915 every day. If I said I get 3 crashes per year in the last 3-5 years that would probably be exaggerating.
    - ndarwincorn 7y ago
      True for me as well, similar setup (amdgpu, not nouveau, except at work). The only time FF 'crashes' is when I update while it's running, and even then it gracefully degrades and lets me know I have to restart it. With the 'restore previous session' menu option (an option that only exists in piecemeal and implemented much worse in Chrome), this is a mild inconvenience. Chromium crashes much more frequently for me on Linux.
- tomerico 7y ago
  Not OP, but here are a few simple ones I encountered that swayed me back the chrome: 1. When switching tabs (ctrl + tab), instead of simply moving there, it showed a menu. This means I need to use that tiny menu to decipher which tab I’m on, instead of the entire background. 2. When closing a full screen video playback using ctrl + w, it takes a few seconds of a black screen on Firefox vs instantaneous on chrome 3. When installing extensions, they don’t always have an icon on the top bar, this makes discovarability a pain
  - afiori 7y ago
    > 1. When switching tabs (ctrl + tab), instead of simply moving there, it showed a menu. This means I need to use that tiny menu to decipher which tab I’m on, instead of the entire background. Now this is wonderful in my opinion because it can be configured to cycle in the order in which you visited the tab last. I currently have over 100 tabs open and it helps immensely.
  - wizzwizz4 7y ago
    I only have the third issue, but I don't consider it an issue. Plus, Firefox is faster and leaner than Chrome.
- usaphp 7y ago
  This one is very annoying and has been there for 8+ years now: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29986977/firefox-ignores-padding-when-using-overflowscroll https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29986977/firefox-ignores...
- tick_tock_tick 7y ago
  firefox still has horrible performance and battery usage on mac.
  - bproven 7y ago
    I keep seeing this, but I don't think it is true today with latest FF. The recent updates they made have made FF on mac speedy and no more battery hungry than chrome. safari still beats all on batt though...
    - tick_tock_tick 7y ago
      It's better then it's ever been before but it's not good enough. Maybe in another year or two it will be competitive but until then I can't say it's a viable option for mac.
- mgalgs 7y ago
  It's definitely slower for me (Linux, recent Intel with 20 cores, 32 GB RAM). I still use it on principle. But let's not get complacent with regards to performance. That's why Chrome won in the first place.
chetanbhasin 7y ago
Have you considered using StartPage? I have recently switched and been preaching it among friends and HN since then. It promises DDG like privacy, but search results so far have been substantially better than DDG.
kodablah 7y ago
> which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google Same deal with the browser I use. My preferred UI + Chromium is better for me than FF. There are three common cross-platform browser approaches: Chrome, FF, and Chromium-based. Only one of those three offers extreme visual and feature flexibility. I sound like a broken record saying it, but FF should really invest in embeddability so we can take their engine and run.
- o-__-o 7y ago
  And chromium was forked from webkit.. so why not head to the source and cut off the cancer at the root? I can't believe I just called Google the cancer, but would anyone disagree?
  - kodablah 7y ago
    > so why not head to the source and cut off the cancer at the root? For me, easy consumability. I use Chromium Embedded Framework, I don't actually put the hard work into building and maintaining an API myself. I'd love a similar effort for Gecko (there was effort at one time, but nothing of late IIRC).
tracker1 7y ago
I forced myself to use DDG for about 3 months as my main search engine... nearly 2/3 of the time when searching for technical queries I'd have to fall back to Google... I just switched back... I may give Bing a similar try though, I really like the UI tweaks the Chromium based Edge has done.
- tracker1 7y ago
  Aside.. for anything political in nature, the DDG results were much better in general.
- RonanTheGrey 7y ago
  This has been my primary reason for resorting to Google too, and I just realized a few days ago that I don't really do that much anymore, DDG's technical results are getting much better. There are still times DDG completely misinterprets my query and I have to clarify it or resort to !g but these times are becoming less frequent.
JohnFen 7y ago
> I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. I agree on both counts. If newbies ask me what browser they should use, I say Firefox. But I don't use the modern Firefox myself because I simply don't like it.
tejohnso 7y ago
Curious about Vivaldi. What does it offer on top of Chromium that you find useful?

elbrian 7y ago

> I saw many flaws and bugs. Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?

nkw 7y ago
So I'm not the above poster, but for me the one that killed my workflow was this still-open, 17-year-old bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195361 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195361
- darkwater 7y ago
  And how on Earth is that a deal breaker? Selecting text from disabled fields?
  - kuschku 7y ago
    a lot of websites assume that you’re using chrome and show content you have to copy in disabled text fields (with some styling applied)
    - darkwater 7y ago
      Never found one and, if I did, I don't recall and that's a sign that, at least for me, is a non-issue.
      - kuschku 7y ago
        I had 3 websites in the last 2 weeks (admin UI of self-hosted tools) where this issue was present, but I patched it out.
- amatecha 7y ago
  That's not really a bug - I'd say that's a product design choice. I'm surprised the ticket is still open, tbh.
  - tracker1 7y ago
    The reason you'd want to select text is to select text... same inside a text field disabled or not as outside a form field. Unless you think they should just disable all text outside an active form field?
    - amatecha 7y ago
      I'm not saying I agree with the implementation -- I think the text should indeed be selectable. But it's not what I would call a bug. I looked at the Bugzilla ticket type system and it should be an "enhancement" or "task", not a "defect".
Avamander 7y ago
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594876 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=594876 - 9 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210727 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210727 - 4 years old https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1010527 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1010527 - 6 years old Not to mention the weird random full-blown crashes that occur when I try to use it that I can't reproduce, no point in opening an issue for those.
- PetahNZ 7y ago
  Back when I did use FF, anytime I actually tried to report bugs I would just get the canned response, "disable your plugins and reset your user profile".
- CamperBob2 7y ago
  It's obvious that most of those random crashes are caused by memory starvation. They should have all the telemetry they need to understand and fix it, if only by popping up an error message saying 'Not enough memory to render this page' or even Safari's maddening version of the same message ('A problem occurred with this web page so it was reloaded.') The only explanation is that they don't give a crap. Very frustrating. Reading the bug thread cited above, it may even be a case of, "I was able to get Chrome to crash under similar circumstances, therefore it is conforming behavior. WONTFIX."
- usr1106 7y ago
  > Not to mention the weird random full-blown crashes that occur when I try to use it that I can't reproduce, no point in opening an issue for those What platform are you using? I have used FF exclusively for 10+ years on Linux. Ubuntu and OpenSUSE every day. Nouveau and i915 every day. If I said I get 3 crashes per year in the last 3-5 years that would probably be exaggerating.
  - ndarwincorn 7y ago
    True for me as well, similar setup (amdgpu, not nouveau, except at work). The only time FF 'crashes' is when I update while it's running, and even then it gracefully degrades and lets me know I have to restart it. With the 'restore previous session' menu option (an option that only exists in piecemeal and implemented much worse in Chrome), this is a mild inconvenience. Chromium crashes much more frequently for me on Linux.
tomerico 7y ago
Not OP, but here are a few simple ones I encountered that swayed me back the chrome: 1. When switching tabs (ctrl + tab), instead of simply moving there, it showed a menu. This means I need to use that tiny menu to decipher which tab I’m on, instead of the entire background. 2. When closing a full screen video playback using ctrl + w, it takes a few seconds of a black screen on Firefox vs instantaneous on chrome 3. When installing extensions, they don’t always have an icon on the top bar, this makes discovarability a pain
- afiori 7y ago
  > 1. When switching tabs (ctrl + tab), instead of simply moving there, it showed a menu. This means I need to use that tiny menu to decipher which tab I’m on, instead of the entire background. Now this is wonderful in my opinion because it can be configured to cycle in the order in which you visited the tab last. I currently have over 100 tabs open and it helps immensely.
- wizzwizz4 7y ago
  I only have the third issue, but I don't consider it an issue. Plus, Firefox is faster and leaner than Chrome.
usaphp 7y ago
This one is very annoying and has been there for 8+ years now: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29986977/firefox-ignores-padding-when-using-overflowscroll https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29986977/firefox-ignores...
tick_tock_tick 7y ago
firefox still has horrible performance and battery usage on mac.
- bproven 7y ago
  I keep seeing this, but I don't think it is true today with latest FF. The recent updates they made have made FF on mac speedy and no more battery hungry than chrome. safari still beats all on batt though...
  - tick_tock_tick 7y ago
    It's better then it's ever been before but it's not good enough. Maybe in another year or two it will be competitive but until then I can't say it's a viable option for mac.
mgalgs 7y ago
It's definitely slower for me (Linux, recent Intel with 20 cores, 32 GB RAM). I still use it on principle. But let's not get complacent with regards to performance. That's why Chrome won in the first place.

chetanbhasin 7y ago

Have you considered using StartPage? I have recently switched and been preaching it among friends and HN since then. It promises DDG like privacy, but search results so far have been substantially better than DDG.

kodablah 7y ago

> which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google Same deal with the browser I use. My preferred UI + Chromium is better for me than FF. There are three common cross-platform browser approaches: Chrome, FF, and Chromium-based. Only one of those three offers extreme visual and feature flexibility. I sound like a broken record saying it, but FF should really invest in embeddability so we can take their engine and run.

o-__-o 7y ago
And chromium was forked from webkit.. so why not head to the source and cut off the cancer at the root? I can't believe I just called Google the cancer, but would anyone disagree?
- kodablah 7y ago
  > so why not head to the source and cut off the cancer at the root? For me, easy consumability. I use Chromium Embedded Framework, I don't actually put the hard work into building and maintaining an API myself. I'd love a similar effort for Gecko (there was effort at one time, but nothing of late IIRC).

tracker1 7y ago

I forced myself to use DDG for about 3 months as my main search engine... nearly 2/3 of the time when searching for technical queries I'd have to fall back to Google... I just switched back... I may give Bing a similar try though, I really like the UI tweaks the Chromium based Edge has done.

tracker1 7y ago
Aside.. for anything political in nature, the DDG results were much better in general.
RonanTheGrey 7y ago
This has been my primary reason for resorting to Google too, and I just realized a few days ago that I don't really do that much anymore, DDG's technical results are getting much better. There are still times DDG completely misinterprets my query and I have to clarify it or resort to !g but these times are becoming less frequent.

JohnFen 7y ago

> I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. I agree on both counts. If newbies ask me what browser they should use, I say Firefox. But I don't use the modern Firefox myself because I simply don't like it.

tejohnso 7y ago

Curious about Vivaldi. What does it offer on top of Chromium that you find useful?