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> Get the best lawyer you can not afford. I've always wondered, what are good ways to actually find the "best" lawyers? For the typical person who doesn't kee

> Get the best lawyer you can not afford. I've always wondered, what are good ways to actually find the "best" lawyers? For the typical person who doesn't keep track of legal cases, wouldn't it be pretty difficult to make a judgement on whether a lawyer or legal firm is super amazing or totally mediocre?

onetimemanytime 7y ago
>>I've always wondered, what are good ways to actually find the "best" lawyers? Have the money, the rest is very easy.
- wodenokoto 7y ago
  IANAL, but boy, do I have some expensive legal services to sell to you! Snark aside, anyone can charge an arm and a leg. The question is, how do you find someone who isn't just charging a high hourly rate, but is charging it because he or she is very good.
  - onetimemanytime 7y ago
    a few phone calls to select people--which those with money are connected to. No snark, just reality.
    - wozniacki 7y ago
      Seriously though, are there LEGAL CONSULTANTS who will SHOP a LAWYER / LAW FIRM for you and SEE if they'll take your CASE? These are very very important decisions for most people who are not in the know. Anything beyond traffic violations and petty charges, most people dont know how to go about finding capable legal talent & associated services. Sites like AVVO notwithstanding, theres no reliable, thorough-going & robust way to shop for a lawyer / law firm.
      - ijidak 7y ago
        This is definitely a thorny problem. I've seen so many terrible lawyers cost clients thousands upon thousands of dollars, because the lawyer doesn't really know how to fight the case, or lacks the skill. And none of us think about this problem until we need it, and by then the situation is too urgent to research slowly and methodically. Hopefully someone will solve. Seems like maybe business idea material. Although, I wonder if Yelp offers sufficient screening...
        Cougher 7y ago
        Thorny indeed. I was targeted and fired by my employer for being a whistleblower-in-the-making. I hired the lawyer that a doctor chose for being scape-goated in the same case. The lawyer was great for the doctor; not so much for the peon. So the same lawyer can be great or not, depending on any number of things.
      - lonelappde 7y ago
        You just need to hire a good legal consultant broker finder.
      - patentatt 7y ago
        Thing is, reviews from clients don’t really apply here. You can be a very bad lawyer with very happy clients. You can also be a great lawyer on a bad case and wind up having a pissed off client who finds it more convenient to blame the lawyer than accept reality. Only a peer expert would be able to determine that you’re incompetent. For the software devs here, ask yourself how a non-technical person could find a great software developer to hire, it’s an analogous problem.
joering2 7y ago
Without going into details of my case and even what type of law it was related to, here is my eight years wasted forever and $240,000 dumped on expensive lawyers that got nowhere: never find lawyer in yellow pages or by referal from friends because every case is different. Always look for lawyers that used to have government job, were prosecutors or even judges (it happens). Like OP said its a game of legal system not a system of justice - you would be suprised how far “buddies that used to work in the same building” can go before anyone can call it a bribe. In my case four lawyers burnt time and money never getting anywhere. I got very inexpensive lawyer that turned out to work for government before. By the end of my free consulatation he got response via personal email from government employee that was holding up my case (indefinitely). By end of week it was positively resolved at the retainer of $2,400.
Cougher 7y ago
Unfortunately, finding a good lawyer, or surgeon, is kind of like finding a good auto mechanic. If the people who are providing the endorsement are not overly familiar with the process, that endorsement may not be of much value. And sometimes the professional may be great for some people in some cases, and much less so for other people in other cases. It's partially a function of a poorly designed system. Liberty, such a (allegedly) fundamental right in America, shouldn't hinge on such an ambiguous and capricious process.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  It's important to befriend a lot of non-jailed criminals so you can get good recommendations. This is how politicians and businesspeople thrive. On capriciousness: if people were good enough to create a good justice system, there would be no need for a justice system. The justice system takes as axiom the myth that there are good people and bad people
logfromblammo 7y ago
I think I'd just pick from a list of lawyers that had recently won criminal cases in the nearest large-ish city--big enough to have full-time cops that do more than write tickets for moving violations. Spot check your choice by pulling public records for cases in which they served as attorney for the defense, just to make sure they didn't make any obvious mistakes. Bonus points if they got an acquittal from having obviously incriminating evidence suppressed. If they can get a criminal who did the deed off, they should be able to defend a wrongly-accused innocent, right? Let friends and family know who you want them to call (and pay) if you get pinched. It seems like low-value research, though, unless you consider yourself at higher risk for being arrested.
stronglikedan 7y ago
If you know who your judge will be, but you don't have a lawyer yet, just go sit in their courtroom for a while watching the defenders. You want the one that everyone from the state says hello to, and laughs and jokes with. Even better if they have the same type of rapport with the judge. Follow them out when they're finished, and ask them for their card.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  If you don't have a lawyer yet after your bail hearing you are already in trouble. You should already have a lawyer and use the opportunity to shop for a second lawyer.
- iudqnolq 7y ago
  Are you a lawyer? This sounds like clever advice, but inexperienced cleverness can be worse than doing nothing in highly complicated and specialized domains like the law. For example, it could be interpreted as stalking judge to intimidate them into ruling for you (dumb, but morons have tried this) and the court system responds with overwhelming force to anything smelling of possibly threatening a judge. This is just a random person on the internet's speculation. It'd be useful to know if your comment is similarly just armchair speculation or if you either have expertise or can cite an example of this working out well.
  - stronglikedan 7y ago
    I'm not a lawyer, but I've unfortunately been a defendant a few times. As for examples, I have only my own, but it's worked out well for me, since I've never been convicted of anything. Anyone can walk into any courtroom at any time (in most cases), so it wouldn't be misinterpreted as stalking. In fact, there are people out there that go spend the day in the courtrooms for fun - just watching the cases unfold. The gist is that you want a lawyer that is both known and liked by the state and the judge. They have a much better chance of negotiating on your behalf. You definitely don't want one that they don't like, and that is usually immediately apparent in the courtroom interactions.

onetimemanytime 7y ago

>>I've always wondered, what are good ways to actually find the "best" lawyers? Have the money, the rest is very easy.

wodenokoto 7y ago
IANAL, but boy, do I have some expensive legal services to sell to you! Snark aside, anyone can charge an arm and a leg. The question is, how do you find someone who isn't just charging a high hourly rate, but is charging it because he or she is very good.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago
  a few phone calls to select people--which those with money are connected to. No snark, just reality.
  - wozniacki 7y ago
    Seriously though, are there LEGAL CONSULTANTS who will SHOP a LAWYER / LAW FIRM for you and SEE if they'll take your CASE? These are very very important decisions for most people who are not in the know. Anything beyond traffic violations and petty charges, most people dont know how to go about finding capable legal talent & associated services. Sites like AVVO notwithstanding, theres no reliable, thorough-going & robust way to shop for a lawyer / law firm.
    - ijidak 7y ago
      This is definitely a thorny problem. I've seen so many terrible lawyers cost clients thousands upon thousands of dollars, because the lawyer doesn't really know how to fight the case, or lacks the skill. And none of us think about this problem until we need it, and by then the situation is too urgent to research slowly and methodically. Hopefully someone will solve. Seems like maybe business idea material. Although, I wonder if Yelp offers sufficient screening...
      - Cougher 7y ago
        Thorny indeed. I was targeted and fired by my employer for being a whistleblower-in-the-making. I hired the lawyer that a doctor chose for being scape-goated in the same case. The lawyer was great for the doctor; not so much for the peon. So the same lawyer can be great or not, depending on any number of things.
    - lonelappde 7y ago
      You just need to hire a good legal consultant broker finder.
    - patentatt 7y ago
      Thing is, reviews from clients don’t really apply here. You can be a very bad lawyer with very happy clients. You can also be a great lawyer on a bad case and wind up having a pissed off client who finds it more convenient to blame the lawyer than accept reality. Only a peer expert would be able to determine that you’re incompetent. For the software devs here, ask yourself how a non-technical person could find a great software developer to hire, it’s an analogous problem.

joering2 7y ago

Without going into details of my case and even what type of law it was related to, here is my eight years wasted forever and $240,000 dumped on expensive lawyers that got nowhere: never find lawyer in yellow pages or by referal from friends because every case is different. Always look for lawyers that used to have government job, were prosecutors or even judges (it happens). Like OP said its a game of legal system not a system of justice - you would be suprised how far “buddies that used to work in the same building” can go before anyone can call it a bribe. In my case four lawyers burnt time and money never getting anywhere. I got very inexpensive lawyer that turned out to work for government before. By the end of my free consulatation he got response via personal email from government employee that was holding up my case (indefinitely). By end of week it was positively resolved at the retainer of $2,400.

Cougher 7y ago

Unfortunately, finding a good lawyer, or surgeon, is kind of like finding a good auto mechanic. If the people who are providing the endorsement are not overly familiar with the process, that endorsement may not be of much value. And sometimes the professional may be great for some people in some cases, and much less so for other people in other cases. It's partially a function of a poorly designed system. Liberty, such a (allegedly) fundamental right in America, shouldn't hinge on such an ambiguous and capricious process.

lonelappde 7y ago
It's important to befriend a lot of non-jailed criminals so you can get good recommendations. This is how politicians and businesspeople thrive. On capriciousness: if people were good enough to create a good justice system, there would be no need for a justice system. The justice system takes as axiom the myth that there are good people and bad people

logfromblammo 7y ago

I think I'd just pick from a list of lawyers that had recently won criminal cases in the nearest large-ish city--big enough to have full-time cops that do more than write tickets for moving violations. Spot check your choice by pulling public records for cases in which they served as attorney for the defense, just to make sure they didn't make any obvious mistakes. Bonus points if they got an acquittal from having obviously incriminating evidence suppressed. If they can get a criminal who did the deed off, they should be able to defend a wrongly-accused innocent, right? Let friends and family know who you want them to call (and pay) if you get pinched. It seems like low-value research, though, unless you consider yourself at higher risk for being arrested.

stronglikedan 7y ago

If you know who your judge will be, but you don't have a lawyer yet, just go sit in their courtroom for a while watching the defenders. You want the one that everyone from the state says hello to, and laughs and jokes with. Even better if they have the same type of rapport with the judge. Follow them out when they're finished, and ask them for their card.

lonelappde 7y ago
If you don't have a lawyer yet after your bail hearing you are already in trouble. You should already have a lawyer and use the opportunity to shop for a second lawyer.
iudqnolq 7y ago
Are you a lawyer? This sounds like clever advice, but inexperienced cleverness can be worse than doing nothing in highly complicated and specialized domains like the law. For example, it could be interpreted as stalking judge to intimidate them into ruling for you (dumb, but morons have tried this) and the court system responds with overwhelming force to anything smelling of possibly threatening a judge. This is just a random person on the internet's speculation. It'd be useful to know if your comment is similarly just armchair speculation or if you either have expertise or can cite an example of this working out well.
- stronglikedan 7y ago
  I'm not a lawyer, but I've unfortunately been a defendant a few times. As for examples, I have only my own, but it's worked out well for me, since I've never been convicted of anything. Anyone can walk into any courtroom at any time (in most cases), so it wouldn't be misinterpreted as stalking. In fact, there are people out there that go spend the day in the courtrooms for fun - just watching the cases unfold. The gist is that you want a lawyer that is both known and liked by the state and the judge. They have a much better chance of negotiating on your behalf. You definitely don't want one that they don't like, and that is usually immediately apparent in the courtroom interactions.