8 ms·

how many people can realistically pull $120,000 from friend and family _and_ expect to pay it all back?

fwn 7y ago
> how many people can realistically pull $120,000 from friend and family _and_ expect to pay it all back? Taking everything said at face value, you pay 120k for 6 years in the job market. That's 20k a year, without interest. edit: please don't read this as an "oh, only 20k a year" comment. My intention was just to make the number approachable by connecting it to the given return. In the same way one would explain unreasonably high college expenses.
- cameronbrown 7y ago
  That's more than half of some (most?) peoples' salary.
- metaphor 7y ago
  On top of all other typical expenses and obligations, that's effectively a respectable mortgage that most households in the US[1] likely wouldn't be able to afford. It's a pretty ridiculous financial burden to shoulder for anyone who isn't in roughly the top 10th-percentile income bracket. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-263.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-26...
- lm28469 7y ago
  Keep in mind that in the us the median income per capita is less than 32k. It's hard to save 20k a years on that kind of revenues.
- jandrese 7y ago
  Try getting a high paying job with a criminal record. Even if you were acquitted. And going to trial with an expensive lawyer is not guarantee of success. You may have an actual criminal record and years in jail before you can begin to pay that back.
jacquesm 7y ago
Well, if I were your friend you'd be roughly halfway there, and if you couldn't pay back then I probably would not lose sleep over it. It depends on your friends, on your standing with them and possibly on who their friends are. That said, the American legal system is totally fucked up and of course it should not take that kind of money to stay out of jail if you're innocent. The burden on society in the longer term is terrible, the burden on these individuals unforgivable. The fact that there are no penalties for prosecutors that wrongly convict, no proper compensation for time served and that prosecutors tend to do dick measuring contests based on their conviction rates doesn't help either.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- toxik 7y ago
  Hey it's me your friend
bsder 7y ago
Even if you can only pull $12,000 or even $1,200 ALMOST ANYTHING is better than relying on the public defender. The public defender is overworked and understaffed. Having someone dedicated to you in the criminal justice system is a huge advantage--especially if you are guilty. (As for being guilty, there are a lot of things that can land you with a felony that are far short of murder or armed robbery. Having a lawyer of your own can sometimes mean the difference between a felony that will haunt you forever versus a misdemeanor that can be expunged/erased/etc.)
- nickjj 7y ago
  > The public defender is overworked and understaffed. Having someone dedicated to you in the criminal justice system is a huge advantage--especially if you are guilty. It's a real shame that the fate of an innocent person's life is determined by a system that's pay to win. To think that you can lose a massive chunk or maybe even your entire adult life for being falsely accused because your public defender is in a bad mood or doesn't have enough time to look into your case is total insanity.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    It's how the system is intentionally designed. It's how people want it. They want high conviction rates and a 'tough on crime' attitude and don't really care much about truth or justice at all, especially if the accused is poor and doubly especially if they're also black.
    - jotm 7y ago
      That attitude really backfires when they are the ones wrongly accused, heh
      - jandrese 7y ago
        They are white and rich. That system doesn't apply to them, by design.
trickstra 7y ago
More importantly - if you get falsely accused, shell out 120k, then what? Courts can still decide that everyone pays their own legal expenses... sounds like falsely accusing someone is enough to ruin them financially.

fwn 7y ago

> how many people can realistically pull $120,000 from friend and family _and_ expect to pay it all back? Taking everything said at face value, you pay 120k for 6 years in the job market. That's 20k a year, without interest. edit: please don't read this as an "oh, only 20k a year" comment. My intention was just to make the number approachable by connecting it to the given return. In the same way one would explain unreasonably high college expenses.

cameronbrown 7y ago
That's more than half of some (most?) peoples' salary.
metaphor 7y ago
On top of all other typical expenses and obligations, that's effectively a respectable mortgage that most households in the US[1] likely wouldn't be able to afford. It's a pretty ridiculous financial burden to shoulder for anyone who isn't in roughly the top 10th-percentile income bracket. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-263.html https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2018/demo/p60-26...
lm28469 7y ago
Keep in mind that in the us the median income per capita is less than 32k. It's hard to save 20k a years on that kind of revenues.
jandrese 7y ago
Try getting a high paying job with a criminal record. Even if you were acquitted. And going to trial with an expensive lawyer is not guarantee of success. You may have an actual criminal record and years in jail before you can begin to pay that back.

jacquesm 7y ago

Well, if I were your friend you'd be roughly halfway there, and if you couldn't pay back then I probably would not lose sleep over it. It depends on your friends, on your standing with them and possibly on who their friends are. That said, the American legal system is totally fucked up and of course it should not take that kind of money to stay out of jail if you're innocent. The burden on society in the longer term is terrible, the burden on these individuals unforgivable. The fact that there are no penalties for prosecutors that wrongly convict, no proper compensation for time served and that prosecutors tend to do dick measuring contests based on their conviction rates doesn't help either.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
toxik 7y ago
Hey it's me your friend

bsder 7y ago

Even if you can only pull $12,000 or even $1,200 ALMOST ANYTHING is better than relying on the public defender. The public defender is overworked and understaffed. Having someone dedicated to you in the criminal justice system is a huge advantage--especially if you are guilty. (As for being guilty, there are a lot of things that can land you with a felony that are far short of murder or armed robbery. Having a lawyer of your own can sometimes mean the difference between a felony that will haunt you forever versus a misdemeanor that can be expunged/erased/etc.)

nickjj 7y ago
> The public defender is overworked and understaffed. Having someone dedicated to you in the criminal justice system is a huge advantage--especially if you are guilty. It's a real shame that the fate of an innocent person's life is determined by a system that's pay to win. To think that you can lose a massive chunk or maybe even your entire adult life for being falsely accused because your public defender is in a bad mood or doesn't have enough time to look into your case is total insanity.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  It's how the system is intentionally designed. It's how people want it. They want high conviction rates and a 'tough on crime' attitude and don't really care much about truth or justice at all, especially if the accused is poor and doubly especially if they're also black.
  - jotm 7y ago
    That attitude really backfires when they are the ones wrongly accused, heh
    - jandrese 7y ago
      They are white and rich. That system doesn't apply to them, by design.

trickstra 7y ago

More importantly - if you get falsely accused, shell out 120k, then what? Courts can still decide that everyone pays their own legal expenses... sounds like falsely accusing someone is enough to ruin them financially.