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It's a hoot when you hear someone say something like that. I mean, nobody works in a vacuum. The boss used her capital and labor to put in place all the resourc

It's a hoot when you hear someone say something like that. I mean, nobody works in a vacuum. The boss used her capital and labor to put in place all the resources that enable you to work, and has to use his capital and labor to maintain a going concern, and deserves to earn something for their labor as well as a return on risked capital which is a risk you as the worker don't take. I'm pretty happy to take a salary and go home at the end of the day without having to worry about losing my entire investment due to the vagaries of business or an employee's bad attitude.

puranjay 7y ago
People also underestimate the sheer legal and regulatory BS you have to deal with as an employer. The employee doesn't have to worry about keeping books, filing quarterly taxes, or dealing with any legal entanglements (and for larger companies, there are a lot of legal entanglements). Employees are insulated from all this work, which requires, not just manpower, but also a ton of mental space.
- cik 7y ago
  Exactly. One of my more frustrating lessons was the sheer amount of time I had to spend on Government related activities whilst running my previous business. I was already a Libertarian going in, but it only served to entrench my stance further. Even when you outsource those things to accountants, lawyers, payroll company, HR, etc... you quickly come to realize how much time, money and effort goes into the cost of maintaining government-related compliance.
  - puranjay 7y ago
    It's even worse in my line of work because most governments, mine included, have just not caught up to the modern model of work. The legal frameworks for dealing with products that might be hosted in one country, have payments processed in another, and have customers from all over the globe are just wonky. I predict the country that understands the modern internet-enabled venture and creates laws specifically for them will benefit a great deal in the future. I'm told that Estonia is on that path, but I haven't studied it enough to affirm it
    - cik 7y ago
      Estonia (heck, Israel too!) is really good at this - the problem is local tax law. Jurisdictions almost uniformly have rules and regulations such that decision making is deemed to happen in the jurisdiction of residence and declaration. This is more or less a worldwide phenomenon.
missosoup 7y ago
> The boss used her capital and labor to put in place all the resources that enable you to work Capital accrued through the exploitation (yes, that's the legal and technical term) of labour. There is 0 evidence that we wouldn't have a more productive society overall, if capital was more uniformly distributed across society; enabling more individuals to work for themselves or in co-ops. Capitalist organisation structures are a pyramid with a very small few at the top collecting the vast majority of generated value. I don't think even the staunchest capitalism proponents can argue that a CEO no matter how good, is generating millions of times more value than a line worker at any org. Yet that's the kind of income deltas we see. And we already know what happens when capitalist orgs reach a certain size. Rent seeking. They direct their resources towards preventing anyone else from competing in their niche through regulation and other barriers to entry. 'Why don't you go off and do your own thing?' Because it takes several million dollars to overcome the barrier to entry and even take a shot in any profitable industry. Exactly the kind of capital that average people don't have with the currently massively skewed wealth distribution curve. If everyone suddenly had 5m in their bank accounts, you can bet your ass of millions of people would quit their jobs and go off to start their own things. tl;dr: your employer isn't doing you any favours by hiring you and exploiting your labour. The fact that they happen to possess the capital necessary to profitably exploit you while you don't, doesn't turn them into a charity.
- rlonn 7y ago
  Wow, a hundred million times minimum wage in the US should be something like, I don't know, a trillion dollars per year? That's amazing! I can surely understand why people are so upset about income equality now.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- divbyzer0 7y ago
  So can we equeate the term 'offering employment' to 'offering exploitation'? Unless exploited by force (slavery). The employed/expolited are free to find their true value by alternavtive means? Find another job - less exploitive, or make your own job. There are many problems with capitalism, I would argue taxation, or more appropriately lack of taxation is a greater concern. As for the scenario if everyone had 5m in their accounts in the morning, only the most foolish would quit their jobs as inflation would render the windfall as null and void. We all cannot be equally well-off. Value will always flow, and eventually concentrate.

puranjay 7y ago

People also underestimate the sheer legal and regulatory BS you have to deal with as an employer. The employee doesn't have to worry about keeping books, filing quarterly taxes, or dealing with any legal entanglements (and for larger companies, there are a lot of legal entanglements). Employees are insulated from all this work, which requires, not just manpower, but also a ton of mental space.

cik 7y ago
Exactly. One of my more frustrating lessons was the sheer amount of time I had to spend on Government related activities whilst running my previous business. I was already a Libertarian going in, but it only served to entrench my stance further. Even when you outsource those things to accountants, lawyers, payroll company, HR, etc... you quickly come to realize how much time, money and effort goes into the cost of maintaining government-related compliance.
- puranjay 7y ago
  It's even worse in my line of work because most governments, mine included, have just not caught up to the modern model of work. The legal frameworks for dealing with products that might be hosted in one country, have payments processed in another, and have customers from all over the globe are just wonky. I predict the country that understands the modern internet-enabled venture and creates laws specifically for them will benefit a great deal in the future. I'm told that Estonia is on that path, but I haven't studied it enough to affirm it
  - cik 7y ago
    Estonia (heck, Israel too!) is really good at this - the problem is local tax law. Jurisdictions almost uniformly have rules and regulations such that decision making is deemed to happen in the jurisdiction of residence and declaration. This is more or less a worldwide phenomenon.

missosoup 7y ago

> The boss used her capital and labor to put in place all the resources that enable you to work Capital accrued through the exploitation (yes, that's the legal and technical term) of labour. There is 0 evidence that we wouldn't have a more productive society overall, if capital was more uniformly distributed across society; enabling more individuals to work for themselves or in co-ops. Capitalist organisation structures are a pyramid with a very small few at the top collecting the vast majority of generated value. I don't think even the staunchest capitalism proponents can argue that a CEO no matter how good, is generating millions of times more value than a line worker at any org. Yet that's the kind of income deltas we see. And we already know what happens when capitalist orgs reach a certain size. Rent seeking. They direct their resources towards preventing anyone else from competing in their niche through regulation and other barriers to entry. 'Why don't you go off and do your own thing?' Because it takes several million dollars to overcome the barrier to entry and even take a shot in any profitable industry. Exactly the kind of capital that average people don't have with the currently massively skewed wealth distribution curve. If everyone suddenly had 5m in their bank accounts, you can bet your ass of millions of people would quit their jobs and go off to start their own things. tl;dr: your employer isn't doing you any favours by hiring you and exploiting your labour. The fact that they happen to possess the capital necessary to profitably exploit you while you don't, doesn't turn them into a charity.

rlonn 7y ago
Wow, a hundred million times minimum wage in the US should be something like, I don't know, a trillion dollars per year? That's amazing! I can surely understand why people are so upset about income equality now.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
divbyzer0 7y ago
So can we equeate the term 'offering employment' to 'offering exploitation'? Unless exploited by force (slavery). The employed/expolited are free to find their true value by alternavtive means? Find another job - less exploitive, or make your own job. There are many problems with capitalism, I would argue taxation, or more appropriately lack of taxation is a greater concern. As for the scenario if everyone had 5m in their accounts in the morning, only the most foolish would quit their jobs as inflation would render the windfall as null and void. We all cannot be equally well-off. Value will always flow, and eventually concentrate.