5 ms·

I have an odd fascination with people who manage to use Plan 9 (they strike me as delightfully insane). It feels like I'm going down a Discordian reality tunnel

by kylek 7y ago

I have an odd fascination with people who manage to use Plan 9 (they strike me as delightfully insane). It feels like I'm going down a Discordian reality tunnel whenever I read things like this.

jethro_tell 7y ago
Every time I always want the article 'WHY I Switched to Plan 9'
- yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
  "Because it’s there" (George Mallory, when asked why climb Mt. Everest). Some people look for the most exotic art. Some people seek the most unusual foods. Some people want to know exactly what's out there in the universe (enough for humanity to keep chucking probes into deep space, no less). And, some people want to use their computer in a new way. Some of those people even end up deriving practical value from the exercise, but I would hesitate to claim that that's the reason we do it:)
- richardw 7y ago
  My guess, and paraphrasing: it's like software that blocks out distractions. No modern web, he stays mostly focused on his job, which is writing. The software works in a way that suits his sensibilities - consistent, minimalist, quirky, undistracted by FB and Youtube. "More UNIX than UNIX", if you will. Some people eat aeroplanes. He uses Plan9.
- yiyus 7y ago
  If you have made the switch from Windows to Linux, you probably have got that feeling of satisfaction, of things working as expected. Maybe getting everything working was harder, but it felt right. That is the feeling you get when you switch from Linux (or other Unix) to Plan 9. Yes, you lack a web browser, but it is a beautiful system. Then, there are a reduced group of people (like sl) for whom this beautiful system just works. It is the same reason people write programs using lambda calculus or make fundamental physics research instead of engineering. We even get something useful from it from time to time, but that is just a very nice side effect. Or, as Feynman put it: "it's like sex, it may give some practical results, but that is not why we do it".
- el_cujo 7y ago
  I think it's just an evolution of distro-hopping even though I don't think people like to admit it. After you've tried all of the major linux distros and you're still looking to play around with something different, the next step is to jump to something like BSD or Haiku or Plan9. You might not get a lot of people openly admitting this though, seems like it's looked down upon to try out something new like this "just for fun" versus having some super specific technical reason. Then again, the "just for fun" distro-hoppers may not stick with Plan9 long enough to tell anyone about it before they move on to something else :P
  - that_jojo 7y ago
    Can confirm. And I'm not embarassed to admit it. When did wanting to just have fun become shameful?
  - jethro_tell 7y ago
    not sure if BSD should bee in that list with Haiku or Plan9 There's a few BSDs that have 'multimedia and the modern web'
    - el_cujo 7y ago
      I didn’t mean that they aren’t usable like that, but that a lot of people try them out after hopping between a bunch of Linux distros first. I know people who use FreeBSD as a daily driver and do all of the normal stuff your average user would be able to do in terms of web browsing
- Seirdy 7y ago
  Plan 9 is the successor to UNIX. Inferno OS is the successor to Plan 9. If you use either for a while, you'll appreciate how well-designed the system is. That, in itself, is valuable. It doesn't need to bring a profit to your startup to justify its existence and use. > We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion. And medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for. From the movie Dead Poets' Society. Emphasis mine.
skissane 7y ago
There are far weirder Discordian reality tunnels you could go down. Like the MVS 3.8J community – tinkering with a 1970s vintage IBM mainframe operating system running under emulation (that version was the last version of MVS that is legal to distribute, IBM put all the subsequent versions under restrictive license agreements.) Or, people who create enhanced versions of TempleOS, introducing to it the heresy of networking.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  > Or, people who create enhanced versions of TempleOS, introducing to it the heresy of networking. "Defiled OS". That might be a fun adventure on FOSS trolling. (this is where I'd put some sort of Windows Vista joke)
darkwater 7y ago
The most fascinating part is dismissing other OSes as "inferior".
- zeveb 7y ago
  I think the real flaw is thinking that there is single axis of quality: really, there are multiple axes. There's code quality: Plan 9 probably is superior to Linux, Windows or macOS. There's popularity: Plan 9 is inferior to the Big Three. There's orthogonality: Plan 9 is superior to the Big Three. There's availability of fundamental software like w web browser and emacs: Plan 9 is inferior to the Big Three. There's performance: Plan 9 might actually be better because it does less, but worse at truly intensive loads? I don't actually know. There's API surface: Plan 9 has a much smaller API, which is both superior (cleaner) and inferior (less features out of the box) — I think it's a net win, but reasonable people can disagree. That said, once you've played around with Plan 9's filesystem ideas, they are IMHO clearly and inarguably correct, and should be adopted.
  - coliveira 7y ago
    In UNIX systems you already can adopt many of plan9's design ideas. For example, any application can open and read files to communicate with other apps. I think the main problem with plan9 is that what it offers can already be done in other flavors of UNIX. So, what remains as innovation is the software itself, which is not enough to make users adopt plan9.
    - zeveb 7y ago
      > In UNIX systems you already can adopt many of plan9's design ideas. I don't think that's really true. You can't do the sort of things with namespaces and filesystems that one can do on Plan 9 in e.g. Linux.
klyrs 7y ago
I've always wanted to care enough to try plan9. Growing up, we had thin clients in the library, and I've always held a little romance with the idea. So my retrofuturistic dream is a plan9 phone. Not really sure why; just seems cool

by kylek 7y ago

I have an odd fascination with people who manage to use Plan 9 (they strike me as delightfully insane). It feels like I'm going down a Discordian reality tunnel whenever I read things like this.

jethro_tell 7y ago

Every time I always want the article 'WHY I Switched to Plan 9'

yjftsjthsd-h 7y ago
"Because it’s there" (George Mallory, when asked why climb Mt. Everest). Some people look for the most exotic art. Some people seek the most unusual foods. Some people want to know exactly what's out there in the universe (enough for humanity to keep chucking probes into deep space, no less). And, some people want to use their computer in a new way. Some of those people even end up deriving practical value from the exercise, but I would hesitate to claim that that's the reason we do it:)
richardw 7y ago
My guess, and paraphrasing: it's like software that blocks out distractions. No modern web, he stays mostly focused on his job, which is writing. The software works in a way that suits his sensibilities - consistent, minimalist, quirky, undistracted by FB and Youtube. "More UNIX than UNIX", if you will. Some people eat aeroplanes. He uses Plan9.
yiyus 7y ago
If you have made the switch from Windows to Linux, you probably have got that feeling of satisfaction, of things working as expected. Maybe getting everything working was harder, but it felt right. That is the feeling you get when you switch from Linux (or other Unix) to Plan 9. Yes, you lack a web browser, but it is a beautiful system. Then, there are a reduced group of people (like sl) for whom this beautiful system just works. It is the same reason people write programs using lambda calculus or make fundamental physics research instead of engineering. We even get something useful from it from time to time, but that is just a very nice side effect. Or, as Feynman put it: "it's like sex, it may give some practical results, but that is not why we do it".
el_cujo 7y ago
I think it's just an evolution of distro-hopping even though I don't think people like to admit it. After you've tried all of the major linux distros and you're still looking to play around with something different, the next step is to jump to something like BSD or Haiku or Plan9. You might not get a lot of people openly admitting this though, seems like it's looked down upon to try out something new like this "just for fun" versus having some super specific technical reason. Then again, the "just for fun" distro-hoppers may not stick with Plan9 long enough to tell anyone about it before they move on to something else :P
- that_jojo 7y ago
  Can confirm. And I'm not embarassed to admit it. When did wanting to just have fun become shameful?
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  not sure if BSD should bee in that list with Haiku or Plan9 There's a few BSDs that have 'multimedia and the modern web'
  - el_cujo 7y ago
    I didn’t mean that they aren’t usable like that, but that a lot of people try them out after hopping between a bunch of Linux distros first. I know people who use FreeBSD as a daily driver and do all of the normal stuff your average user would be able to do in terms of web browsing
Seirdy 7y ago
Plan 9 is the successor to UNIX. Inferno OS is the successor to Plan 9. If you use either for a while, you'll appreciate how well-designed the system is. That, in itself, is valuable. It doesn't need to bring a profit to your startup to justify its existence and use. > We don't read and write poetry because it's cute. We read and write poetry because we are members of the human race. And the human race is filled with passion. And medicine, law, business, engineering, these are noble pursuits and necessary to sustain life. But poetry, beauty, romance, love, these are what we stay alive for. From the movie Dead Poets' Society. Emphasis mine.

skissane 7y ago

There are far weirder Discordian reality tunnels you could go down. Like the MVS 3.8J community – tinkering with a 1970s vintage IBM mainframe operating system running under emulation (that version was the last version of MVS that is legal to distribute, IBM put all the subsequent versions under restrictive license agreements.) Or, people who create enhanced versions of TempleOS, introducing to it the heresy of networking.

blaser-waffle 7y ago
> Or, people who create enhanced versions of TempleOS, introducing to it the heresy of networking. "Defiled OS". That might be a fun adventure on FOSS trolling. (this is where I'd put some sort of Windows Vista joke)

darkwater 7y ago

The most fascinating part is dismissing other OSes as "inferior".

zeveb 7y ago
I think the real flaw is thinking that there is single axis of quality: really, there are multiple axes. There's code quality: Plan 9 probably is superior to Linux, Windows or macOS. There's popularity: Plan 9 is inferior to the Big Three. There's orthogonality: Plan 9 is superior to the Big Three. There's availability of fundamental software like w web browser and emacs: Plan 9 is inferior to the Big Three. There's performance: Plan 9 might actually be better because it does less, but worse at truly intensive loads? I don't actually know. There's API surface: Plan 9 has a much smaller API, which is both superior (cleaner) and inferior (less features out of the box) — I think it's a net win, but reasonable people can disagree. That said, once you've played around with Plan 9's filesystem ideas, they are IMHO clearly and inarguably correct, and should be adopted.
- coliveira 7y ago
  In UNIX systems you already can adopt many of plan9's design ideas. For example, any application can open and read files to communicate with other apps. I think the main problem with plan9 is that what it offers can already be done in other flavors of UNIX. So, what remains as innovation is the software itself, which is not enough to make users adopt plan9.
  - zeveb 7y ago
    > In UNIX systems you already can adopt many of plan9's design ideas. I don't think that's really true. You can't do the sort of things with namespaces and filesystems that one can do on Plan 9 in e.g. Linux.

klyrs 7y ago

I've always wanted to care enough to try plan9. Growing up, we had thin clients in the library, and I've always held a little romance with the idea. So my retrofuturistic dream is a plan9 phone. Not really sure why; just seems cool