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In the '70's, Porsche unabashedly made cars that earned the nickname "widowmaker." Now it's bragging that in the near future a driver (user?) will be able to m

In the '70's, Porsche unabashedly made cars that earned the nickname "widowmaker." Now it's bragging that in the near future a driver (user?) will be able to mash their car's throttle mid-corner with total impunity. Off the top of my head I can't think of another car company that's had such a weird trajectory. It's disappointing the new technology is unlikely to help Porsche users stop any faster, because the need for them to do so could be a side affect of their finally feeling secure when turning.

detaro 7y ago
Partially it's different markets: In SUVs these things are seen differently. Partially I think it's a general change in attitude, and one I think is mirrored in other sports car makers too: They all have various kinds of stability features, and options to control how it balances between strict control and "fun" behavior (you can't necessarily turn it of entirely anymore, and for a vehicle with individually driven wheels the concept of "non-assisted" doesn't even make sense)
blunte 7y ago
When the Porsche 959 came out, it was likely the most technologically advanced performance road car available (well, not likely... certainly). The performance numbers and vehicle stats were fantastic, and the look was arguably good for that time. But there was one common complaint: it was boring. The car was so well engineered that it could be a very manageable daily driver, or it could go set lap records with an average driver. In other words, there was little risk, and equally little reward. Now you have Teslas with straight line performance that even stupid Dodge "muscle" cars can't match, at least for speeds even remotely within some legal limit. Since most drivers are ill equipped to drive a slow car well, it's quite scary to imagine them driving cars with the current performance characteristics. So yeah, give them more go fast tech and watch what happens! Unless we develop some new stop-faster tech that greatly improves on the current situation, there will just be more accidents.
darksaints 7y ago
> Now it's bragging that in the near future a driver (user?) will be able to mash their car's throttle mid-corner with total impunity. Funnily enough, that's exactly what you're supposed to do in a Porsche (assuming it is a rear engine 911). Unlike most cars, 911s will understeer (or correct an oversteer) when you mash the throttle, and oversteer when you lift off the throttle. The reason they're called widowmakers is that the oversteer/understeer dynamics are the exact opposite from what you would expect. Think you're going too fast into that turn? If you slow down, you're dead, but if you speed up, you'll survive. It's also why crazy adrenaline junkies love them so much...in some senses, they're actually safer when you push them hard than they are when you try to be careful.
- mcsb4 7y ago
  > Funnily enough, that's exactly what you're supposed to do in a Porsche (assuming it is a rear engine 911). Unlike most cars, 911s will understeer (or correct an oversteer) when you mash the throttle, and oversteer when you lift off the throttle. That is only true for pre-1994 911s. The 928 never showed that behaviour due to having a Weissach axle from the very beginning of production in 1977.
  - darksaints 7y ago
    It's also true of later 911s as well. I did carbon fiber bodywork for a PCA club racing team in college, and I definitely experienced it in some of the water cooled 996s. Some of the traction control methods reduced it a bit, but Porsche knows that they can't get rid of it entirely without changing the balance of the car (or alienating fans). The 928 and the 944 were also front engine with a rear transaxle, which evened out the weight distribution quite a bit, and that alone mitigated a lot of the lift throttle oversteer. I loved the handling of both of those cars...you get the 50/50 weight distribution of a mid engine car, but the handling is so much more stable and predictable because the weight is at the ends of the car. Too bad they were about as reliable as octogenarian flatulence.
  - OnlineGladiator 7y ago
    > The 928 never showed that behaviour due to having a Weissach axle from the very beginning of production in 1977. I used to drive a 928. Perfect 50/50 weight distribution, beautiful throaty engine, and the most god-awful gearbox ever made. I had to rev match to shift up! in 2nd gear. They had a design flaw where the synchromesh just fundamentally would not work, and if you fixed it it would just break itself again. I had to learn heel-toe shifting just to be able to drive that car at all. I fucking loved it, and it really got me into cars. Also that car was great for whipping around a turn, just push on the throttle, slide around the back, then take off (I realize this is not the fastest way, but it is the most fun). I apologize for the tangent, it's just not often people talk about 928s anymore.

detaro 7y ago

Partially it's different markets: In SUVs these things are seen differently. Partially I think it's a general change in attitude, and one I think is mirrored in other sports car makers too: They all have various kinds of stability features, and options to control how it balances between strict control and "fun" behavior (you can't necessarily turn it of entirely anymore, and for a vehicle with individually driven wheels the concept of "non-assisted" doesn't even make sense)

blunte 7y ago

When the Porsche 959 came out, it was likely the most technologically advanced performance road car available (well, not likely... certainly). The performance numbers and vehicle stats were fantastic, and the look was arguably good for that time. But there was one common complaint: it was boring. The car was so well engineered that it could be a very manageable daily driver, or it could go set lap records with an average driver. In other words, there was little risk, and equally little reward. Now you have Teslas with straight line performance that even stupid Dodge "muscle" cars can't match, at least for speeds even remotely within some legal limit. Since most drivers are ill equipped to drive a slow car well, it's quite scary to imagine them driving cars with the current performance characteristics. So yeah, give them more go fast tech and watch what happens! Unless we develop some new stop-faster tech that greatly improves on the current situation, there will just be more accidents.

darksaints 7y ago

> Now it's bragging that in the near future a driver (user?) will be able to mash their car's throttle mid-corner with total impunity. Funnily enough, that's exactly what you're supposed to do in a Porsche (assuming it is a rear engine 911). Unlike most cars, 911s will understeer (or correct an oversteer) when you mash the throttle, and oversteer when you lift off the throttle. The reason they're called widowmakers is that the oversteer/understeer dynamics are the exact opposite from what you would expect. Think you're going too fast into that turn? If you slow down, you're dead, but if you speed up, you'll survive. It's also why crazy adrenaline junkies love them so much...in some senses, they're actually safer when you push them hard than they are when you try to be careful.

mcsb4 7y ago
> Funnily enough, that's exactly what you're supposed to do in a Porsche (assuming it is a rear engine 911). Unlike most cars, 911s will understeer (or correct an oversteer) when you mash the throttle, and oversteer when you lift off the throttle. That is only true for pre-1994 911s. The 928 never showed that behaviour due to having a Weissach axle from the very beginning of production in 1977.
- darksaints 7y ago
  It's also true of later 911s as well. I did carbon fiber bodywork for a PCA club racing team in college, and I definitely experienced it in some of the water cooled 996s. Some of the traction control methods reduced it a bit, but Porsche knows that they can't get rid of it entirely without changing the balance of the car (or alienating fans). The 928 and the 944 were also front engine with a rear transaxle, which evened out the weight distribution quite a bit, and that alone mitigated a lot of the lift throttle oversteer. I loved the handling of both of those cars...you get the 50/50 weight distribution of a mid engine car, but the handling is so much more stable and predictable because the weight is at the ends of the car. Too bad they were about as reliable as octogenarian flatulence.
- OnlineGladiator 7y ago
  > The 928 never showed that behaviour due to having a Weissach axle from the very beginning of production in 1977. I used to drive a 928. Perfect 50/50 weight distribution, beautiful throaty engine, and the most god-awful gearbox ever made. I had to rev match to shift up! in 2nd gear. They had a design flaw where the synchromesh just fundamentally would not work, and if you fixed it it would just break itself again. I had to learn heel-toe shifting just to be able to drive that car at all. I fucking loved it, and it really got me into cars. Also that car was great for whipping around a turn, just push on the throttle, slide around the back, then take off (I realize this is not the fastest way, but it is the most fun). I apologize for the tangent, it's just not often people talk about 928s anymore.