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I never said the gun went off "accidentally", you added that word to support your otherwise baseless argument. Guns go off during robberies because the robber g

I never said the gun went off "accidentally", you added that word to support your otherwise baseless argument. Guns go off during robberies because the robber got nervous or impatient, because there was a melee, because a third party got involved. By deliberately bringing the gun into the situation, the subsequent claim of an "accidental" firing is nullified. A guy drinks two quarts of whisky at his favorite bar then drives home. On the way in his drunken state he runs a red light, smashes into a school bus and kills a 9 year old he never met named Mikey. Whoops, sorry Mikey's mom and dad, it was just an accident! Because Tchaffee says so.

tchaffee 7y ago
Great example. Killing someone while drunk is called involuntary manslaughter. Because it's an accident. It was not planned. It wasn't intentional. I never once claimed that accidents can't be horrible. Or that reckless behavior that results in an accident should not be punished. I never said it was "just" an accident. That's you putting words in my mouth. What I said is very simple: if it wasn't part of the plan, it was an accident.
- listenallyall 7y ago
  Absolutely false. Dec. 2: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2019/12/drunk-driver-who-killed-a-mother-and-four-children-gets-34-year-sentence.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2019/12/drunk-driver-who-ki... Nov 14: https://www.inquirer.com/news/david-strowhouer-sentence-dui-media-20191114.html https://www.inquirer.com/news/david-strowhouer-sentence-dui-... Nov 8: https://eccalifornian.com/drunk-driver-given-second-degree-murder-conviction/ https://eccalifornian.com/drunk-driver-given-second-degree-m... Nov 15: https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2019/11/15/fatal-dwi-crash-broome-ny-constance-mazzarese-owego-teen-killed-michael-gincerowski/2560883001/ https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2019/... first-degree manslaughter, third-degree murder, second-degree murder, first-degree vehicular manslaughter "Involuntary" isn't in any of these. And these are just the first few search results.
  - tchaffee 7y ago
    It's only false if you are willing to be a victim of confirmation bias. "DUI manslaughter charges are more common than DUI murder charges. Simply put, an intoxicated driver is arrested after causing an accident that resulted in the death of another person. The driver did not intend to cause the death, but it happened as a result of drunk driving." https://dui.findlaw.com/dui-charges/dui-manslaughter-and-dui-murder.html https://dui.findlaw.com/dui-charges/dui-manslaughter-and-dui... It would be child's play for anyone at this point to use a search engine to dig up loads of examples of people convicted for involuntary manslaughter as a result of killing someone while drunk driving.
    - listenallyall 7y ago
      You get points for tenacity, I'll concede that. But your argument is simply wrong. You stated: "Killing someone while drunk is called involuntary manslaughter" Of course, most of the time it is. But you didn't qualify with "usually" or "often" (or with "while driving", for that matter). A single example of killing someone while drunk NOT equating to involuntary manslaughter, is sufficient to prove your statement to be false, same as if you had said "prime numbers are odd." The flaw in your logic this whole time is your insistence that anything unintended = accident. Things can be unintended but also not an accident. All the previous examples. Involuntary manslaughter laws tend to use the word "unintentional" but not "accidental." How about the Free Solo guy -- certainly he didn't intend to die, but had he slipped and fell, when the whole point of the climb was to do it without any safety equipment, it couldn't be classified as an accident. Car "accidents" are rarely accidents -- in most cases, one party failed to follow a safety signal or violated some rule. And yes, if you deliberately drop a bomb near a border, you can't claim the allies you killed on the other side were accidental. Collateral damage, yes, accidental, no. If you cannot see that, or that it isn't "accidental" when a serial drunk driver kills someone, or a gun getting fired during a robbery also isn't accidental -- or when a government unleashes a computer virus that it knows will likely affect hundreds/thousands of computers owned by people or companies it doesn't care about -- well, you're maintaining a position about which few people would agree.
      - 7y ago

tchaffee 7y ago

Great example. Killing someone while drunk is called involuntary manslaughter. Because it's an accident. It was not planned. It wasn't intentional. I never once claimed that accidents can't be horrible. Or that reckless behavior that results in an accident should not be punished. I never said it was "just" an accident. That's you putting words in my mouth. What I said is very simple: if it wasn't part of the plan, it was an accident.

listenallyall 7y ago
Absolutely false. Dec. 2: https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2019/12/drunk-driver-who-killed-a-mother-and-four-children-gets-34-year-sentence.html https://www.oregonlive.com/crime/2019/12/drunk-driver-who-ki... Nov 14: https://www.inquirer.com/news/david-strowhouer-sentence-dui-media-20191114.html https://www.inquirer.com/news/david-strowhouer-sentence-dui-... Nov 8: https://eccalifornian.com/drunk-driver-given-second-degree-murder-conviction/ https://eccalifornian.com/drunk-driver-given-second-degree-m... Nov 15: https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2019/11/15/fatal-dwi-crash-broome-ny-constance-mazzarese-owego-teen-killed-michael-gincerowski/2560883001/ https://www.pressconnects.com/story/news/public-safety/2019/... first-degree manslaughter, third-degree murder, second-degree murder, first-degree vehicular manslaughter "Involuntary" isn't in any of these. And these are just the first few search results.
- tchaffee 7y ago
  It's only false if you are willing to be a victim of confirmation bias. "DUI manslaughter charges are more common than DUI murder charges. Simply put, an intoxicated driver is arrested after causing an accident that resulted in the death of another person. The driver did not intend to cause the death, but it happened as a result of drunk driving." https://dui.findlaw.com/dui-charges/dui-manslaughter-and-dui-murder.html https://dui.findlaw.com/dui-charges/dui-manslaughter-and-dui... It would be child's play for anyone at this point to use a search engine to dig up loads of examples of people convicted for involuntary manslaughter as a result of killing someone while drunk driving.
  - listenallyall 7y ago
    You get points for tenacity, I'll concede that. But your argument is simply wrong. You stated: "Killing someone while drunk is called involuntary manslaughter" Of course, most of the time it is. But you didn't qualify with "usually" or "often" (or with "while driving", for that matter). A single example of killing someone while drunk NOT equating to involuntary manslaughter, is sufficient to prove your statement to be false, same as if you had said "prime numbers are odd." The flaw in your logic this whole time is your insistence that anything unintended = accident. Things can be unintended but also not an accident. All the previous examples. Involuntary manslaughter laws tend to use the word "unintentional" but not "accidental." How about the Free Solo guy -- certainly he didn't intend to die, but had he slipped and fell, when the whole point of the climb was to do it without any safety equipment, it couldn't be classified as an accident. Car "accidents" are rarely accidents -- in most cases, one party failed to follow a safety signal or violated some rule. And yes, if you deliberately drop a bomb near a border, you can't claim the allies you killed on the other side were accidental. Collateral damage, yes, accidental, no. If you cannot see that, or that it isn't "accidental" when a serial drunk driver kills someone, or a gun getting fired during a robbery also isn't accidental -- or when a government unleashes a computer virus that it knows will likely affect hundreds/thousands of computers owned by people or companies it doesn't care about -- well, you're maintaining a position about which few people would agree.
    - 7y ago