6 ms·

All IoT devices are corporate botnets, I still don't understand why people install them in their homes. Alexa/Google assistants provide very little value for th

All IoT devices are corporate botnets, I still don't understand why people install them in their homes. Alexa/Google assistants provide very little value for the user and give companies a microphone into your private life.

mensetmanusman 7y ago
Our kids have so much fun with Alexa. Helping 5-year olds spell words and check math homework, play classical music (learning composers) and dance music, tell stories, etc. It’s like a fun and useful version of a radio.
- whatusername 7y ago
  Got some suggested skills/etc for the kids?
  - mensetmanusman 7y ago
    ‘How do you spell’, ‘play tchaikovsky‘, ‘tell me bedtime story’, ‘what is %X + %Y’, ‘what is the weather’ Recently the 3 and 5 year old have had fun trying to turn on Alexa without saying Alexa (because we told them to stop using it to randomly play baby shark without asking...). Ah lek ah
yeswecatan 7y ago
Not defending them, but so do cell phones.
- Mirioron 7y ago
  But cell phones provide a lot of value. It might not necessarily be vital value, but it certainly makes people's lives significantly better.
- chinigo 7y ago
  For me, the cost/benefit ratio of cell phones far exceeds that of Alexa/Google Assistant/etc. Also, there's a well-established framework of laws governing under what conditions and by whom your telephone conversations can be monitored. For Alexa/GA, you're at the mercy of the TOS.
Operyl 7y ago
This was the same argument I heard about cellphones when they broke the mainstream barrier (affordability), (the microphone portion).
- est31 7y ago
  And they are still surveillance machines. People getting accustomed to smartphones doesn't change their nature. In fact, nowadays as owning a smartphone is unavoidable in many contexts it's much worse than it used to be when they were introduced and an option.
- 0xCMP 7y ago
  And they are. Look at what NYT articles showed and also how the information collected by the Telcos ended up in the hands of bounty hunters and private investigators. Information which couldn't have existed without a) wide spread usage b) incentives to turn them all in to surveillance-lite devices
methodin 7y ago
Ring provides way more value than assistants, though.
duxup 7y ago
Everyone is bugging themselves.
ssully 7y ago
I have outdoor camera's because my house was broken into a few years ago. Call it a corporate botnet if you want, but if it help deter people from breaking into my home again then it's worth it to me.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  Does a real camera help deter any more than a fake one? It seems the entire point of the camera is actually to gather evidence to hand off to police after a crime happens.
baddox 7y ago
I suspect your misunderstanding comes from your mistaken belief that these devices provide very little value for their users.
- Allower 7y ago
  As a user I can confirm Alexa devices offer zero value.
- autoexec 7y ago
  I get that these devices do some useful things, but I can't really think of anything they do that can't also be done with a cell phone and a laptop and without letting contractors listen to you having sex.
  - bootlooped 7y ago
    Once you already own a cellphone, the marginal privacy loss by getting a smart speaker is very small.
    - autoexec 7y ago
      Only if you think your cell phone is always listening, and in some cases it might be. My phone doesn't use any kind of smart assistant and unlike a smart speaker preventing your phone from listening 24/7 doesn't make the device useless
      - thebean11 7y ago
        If you trust Google/Amazon/Apple etc, smart speakers only record when they hear the hot word. What's the difference between that and Google/Apple saying they don't record at all if you turn the assistant off? Either way they could just be lying about how the device works.
        autoexec 7y ago
        If the companies are lying and bugging us no matter what 24/7 we're screwed either way, but even if google/amazon are being 100% honest their contractors are still listening to people with smart speakers having sex. If you turn off your phone's smart assistants and they are telling the truth nothing happens. disable smart assistants on your phone and the phone won't start recording you "accidentally". You don't have that option with a smart speaker. https://thenextweb.com/google/2019/07/10/google-contractors-are-secretly-listening-to-your-assistant-recordings/ https://thenextweb.com/google/2019/07/10/google-contractors-... https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-siri-listening-recording-contractors/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-siri-listening-re...
edejong 7y ago
I have a private ZigBee network, a Z-wave net, another home brew 868 MHZ net and Philips Hue (also ZigBee). All connected to OpenHAB. Which of these IoT networks is a botnet?
m463 7y ago
...and a cash register.

mensetmanusman 7y ago

Our kids have so much fun with Alexa. Helping 5-year olds spell words and check math homework, play classical music (learning composers) and dance music, tell stories, etc. It’s like a fun and useful version of a radio.

whatusername 7y ago
Got some suggested skills/etc for the kids?
- mensetmanusman 7y ago
  ‘How do you spell’, ‘play tchaikovsky‘, ‘tell me bedtime story’, ‘what is %X + %Y’, ‘what is the weather’ Recently the 3 and 5 year old have had fun trying to turn on Alexa without saying Alexa (because we told them to stop using it to randomly play baby shark without asking...). Ah lek ah

yeswecatan 7y ago

Not defending them, but so do cell phones.

Mirioron 7y ago
But cell phones provide a lot of value. It might not necessarily be vital value, but it certainly makes people's lives significantly better.
chinigo 7y ago
For me, the cost/benefit ratio of cell phones far exceeds that of Alexa/Google Assistant/etc. Also, there's a well-established framework of laws governing under what conditions and by whom your telephone conversations can be monitored. For Alexa/GA, you're at the mercy of the TOS.

Operyl 7y ago

This was the same argument I heard about cellphones when they broke the mainstream barrier (affordability), (the microphone portion).

est31 7y ago
And they are still surveillance machines. People getting accustomed to smartphones doesn't change their nature. In fact, nowadays as owning a smartphone is unavoidable in many contexts it's much worse than it used to be when they were introduced and an option.
0xCMP 7y ago
And they are. Look at what NYT articles showed and also how the information collected by the Telcos ended up in the hands of bounty hunters and private investigators. Information which couldn't have existed without a) wide spread usage b) incentives to turn them all in to surveillance-lite devices

methodin 7y ago

Ring provides way more value than assistants, though.

duxup 7y ago

Everyone is bugging themselves.

ssully 7y ago

I have outdoor camera's because my house was broken into a few years ago. Call it a corporate botnet if you want, but if it help deter people from breaking into my home again then it's worth it to me.

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
Does a real camera help deter any more than a fake one? It seems the entire point of the camera is actually to gather evidence to hand off to police after a crime happens.

baddox 7y ago

I suspect your misunderstanding comes from your mistaken belief that these devices provide very little value for their users.

Allower 7y ago
As a user I can confirm Alexa devices offer zero value.
autoexec 7y ago
I get that these devices do some useful things, but I can't really think of anything they do that can't also be done with a cell phone and a laptop and without letting contractors listen to you having sex.
- bootlooped 7y ago
  Once you already own a cellphone, the marginal privacy loss by getting a smart speaker is very small.
  - autoexec 7y ago
    Only if you think your cell phone is always listening, and in some cases it might be. My phone doesn't use any kind of smart assistant and unlike a smart speaker preventing your phone from listening 24/7 doesn't make the device useless
    - thebean11 7y ago
      If you trust Google/Amazon/Apple etc, smart speakers only record when they hear the hot word. What's the difference between that and Google/Apple saying they don't record at all if you turn the assistant off? Either way they could just be lying about how the device works.
      - autoexec 7y ago
        If the companies are lying and bugging us no matter what 24/7 we're screwed either way, but even if google/amazon are being 100% honest their contractors are still listening to people with smart speakers having sex. If you turn off your phone's smart assistants and they are telling the truth nothing happens. disable smart assistants on your phone and the phone won't start recording you "accidentally". You don't have that option with a smart speaker. https://thenextweb.com/google/2019/07/10/google-contractors-are-secretly-listening-to-your-assistant-recordings/ https://thenextweb.com/google/2019/07/10/google-contractors-... https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-siri-listening-recording-contractors/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/apple-siri-listening-re...

edejong 7y ago

I have a private ZigBee network, a Z-wave net, another home brew 868 MHZ net and Philips Hue (also ZigBee). All connected to OpenHAB. Which of these IoT networks is a botnet?

m463 7y ago

...and a cash register.