5 ms·

> crossing the border to claim asylum is explicitly legal No, it isn't. You can file the application no matter how you entered or what your current status is,

by LiNeXT 7y ago

> crossing the border to claim asylum is explicitly legal No, it isn't. You can file the application no matter how you entered or what your current status is, but that doesn't post-facto make an illegal entry suddenly legal.

openasocket 7y ago
Title 8 Section 1158, in the first sentence: "Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title." Asylum seekers may be excused for illegal entry into the US. An asylum seeker can even use a fake passport to get through customs to apply for asylum: see Akinmade v. INS as an example.
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  > Asylum seekers may be excused for illegal entry into the US. An asylum seeker can even use a fake passport to get through customs to apply for asylum: see Akinmade v. INS as an example. This doesn't make the border crossing "explicitly legal," as you claimed, it just means that if you are granted asylum (which, I venture, most applicants are not, since the scope of asylum law is quite narrow), then your illegal entry will be disregarded.
- Rebelgecko 7y ago
  >Asylum seekers may be excused for illegal entry into the US Does that happen automatically when someone just asks for asylum? Or does asylum have to actually be granted first?
  - LiNeXT 7y ago
    It has to be granted.
  - openasocket 7y ago
    Yes. If you use a fake passport to get past customs and request asylum, and your request is denied, you are simply deported and you do not serve jail time and are not barred from future entry into the united states.
    - throwaway894345 7y ago
      Jail time doesn't determine whether or not an act is legal (consider running a red light or underage drinking). In particular, the law you cited above is pretty clear that entering the US to seek asylum is illegal but may be forgiven if asylum is granted. To be clear, these detainees are held under the pretense that they are going to be deported (however they must first be processed). The valid criticism of ICE is that they are apparently detaining US citizens and the detention conditions are unsatisfactory, but it's not a question that it's illegal to enter the US to seek asylum.
      - openasocket 7y ago
        I mean, there's a particular act that the government can't prosecute you for, can't punish you for, and can't take into consideration when making decisions about you, in what sense is that act illegal? That's getting into "if a tree falls in the forest..." territory.
        throwaway894345 7y ago
        "Illegal" is a well defined term. Punishment or lackthereof are irrelevant.
        openasocket 7y ago
        What about if you also can't be prosecuted or convicted for it?
        throwaway894345 7y ago
        Illegal immigration is a prosecutable offense replete with fines and prison sentences. As I understand it, a judge hears the cases and can sentence an individual to deportation, fines, or prison time depending on the defendant's circumstances. IANAL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Ac...
- zo1 7y ago
  Okay, if they're asylum seekers and have valid reasons for claiming asylum, why are they trying to "hide" after crossing such that we're here discussing ICE, border camps, etc? Most of the crossers aren't "technically" asylum seekers and more like economic migrants trying to look for a better life. They probably know this and so hide from border officials. So one side of this debate wants to "include" economic migrants, and the other doesn't. If we can resolve this particular point, we can cut through all the hyperbole and emotion regarding the topic.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

by LiNeXT 7y ago

openasocket 7y ago

Title 8 Section 1158, in the first sentence: "Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of this title." Asylum seekers may be excused for illegal entry into the US. An asylum seeker can even use a fake passport to get through customs to apply for asylum: see Akinmade v. INS as an example.

LiNeXT 7y ago
> Asylum seekers may be excused for illegal entry into the US. An asylum seeker can even use a fake passport to get through customs to apply for asylum: see Akinmade v. INS as an example. This doesn't make the border crossing "explicitly legal," as you claimed, it just means that if you are granted asylum (which, I venture, most applicants are not, since the scope of asylum law is quite narrow), then your illegal entry will be disregarded.
Rebelgecko 7y ago
>Asylum seekers may be excused for illegal entry into the US Does that happen automatically when someone just asks for asylum? Or does asylum have to actually be granted first?
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  It has to be granted.
- openasocket 7y ago
  Yes. If you use a fake passport to get past customs and request asylum, and your request is denied, you are simply deported and you do not serve jail time and are not barred from future entry into the united states.
  - throwaway894345 7y ago
    Jail time doesn't determine whether or not an act is legal (consider running a red light or underage drinking). In particular, the law you cited above is pretty clear that entering the US to seek asylum is illegal but may be forgiven if asylum is granted. To be clear, these detainees are held under the pretense that they are going to be deported (however they must first be processed). The valid criticism of ICE is that they are apparently detaining US citizens and the detention conditions are unsatisfactory, but it's not a question that it's illegal to enter the US to seek asylum.
    - openasocket 7y ago
      I mean, there's a particular act that the government can't prosecute you for, can't punish you for, and can't take into consideration when making decisions about you, in what sense is that act illegal? That's getting into "if a tree falls in the forest..." territory.
      - throwaway894345 7y ago
        "Illegal" is a well defined term. Punishment or lackthereof are irrelevant.
        openasocket 7y ago
        What about if you also can't be prosecuted or convicted for it?
        throwaway894345 7y ago
        Illegal immigration is a prosecutable offense replete with fines and prison sentences. As I understand it, a judge hears the cases and can sentence an individual to deportation, fines, or prison time depending on the defendant's circumstances. IANAL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Ac...
zo1 7y ago
Okay, if they're asylum seekers and have valid reasons for claiming asylum, why are they trying to "hide" after crossing such that we're here discussing ICE, border camps, etc? Most of the crossers aren't "technically" asylum seekers and more like economic migrants trying to look for a better life. They probably know this and so hide from border officials. So one side of this debate wants to "include" economic migrants, and the other doesn't. If we can resolve this particular point, we can cut through all the hyperbole and emotion regarding the topic.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]