4 ms·

> just to browse the web. I must be crazy because i never had a catastrophic issue with an iphone 8 - with an adblocker. If ads are the problem, well guess who

> just to browse the web. I must be crazy because i never had a catastrophic issue with an iphone 8 - with an adblocker. If ads are the problem, well guess who is serving those ads. AMP doesn't even scale anyway - it will bloat like HTML pages bloat over time, because web ppl have a bad habit of only adding things to sites, not removing. What happens then? We invent Amp-html2 to fix amp? AMP is a very-ill-thought bandaid to a culture problem that can be solved with simple nudges (have people forgotten what seismic changes happen to the web every time google rolls out a new SEO algorithm?). Amp s probably the silliest tech idea of the decade.

johnward 7y ago
It's funny. Google is thinking of marking slow loading sites. I analyze my sites with their own page speed tool the biggest blocker is Google/DoubleClick ads. I'm probably going to completely remove AdSense (auto ads are terrible) but can't they optimize their own code?
izacus 7y ago
Yes, of course you didn't have an issue with a new Apple device, that's exactly my point. Did you try browsing the non-AMP web on something like Nexus 4? Motorola Moto E? Oppo and Xiaomi lowend units from 2015?
- johnward 7y ago
  I don't recall ever noting any issues with my Nexus 4. In my opinion, this is a better options: https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/11/google-chrome-to-identify-and-label-slow-websites/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/11/google-chrome-to-identify-...
- buboard 7y ago
  there are so many better ways that google could solve this issue other than amp (derank sites for slow devices / mark them as slow / pass a parameter for slow-phone visitors / create a chrome version for slow devices). AMP is a dictatorial attempt to keep websites forever bound and limited to what google is offering.
  - izacus 7y ago
    Yes, Google did whatever maximally benefits Google. They're a corporation and behave as such. Just like Apple won't de-DRM their cable protocols just because it's "right". The question is - what can the web community do to make AMP redundant outside of complaint posts.
    - buboard 7y ago
      > to make AMP redundant outside First, AMP is already redundant. it doesnt offer anything that stripped-down html can't do. The primary reason sites choose it is because google ranks the pages higher! it's purely coercive. Second , it's not as if AMP has taken over the web. But this coercion has to stop. Third, it's real easy to make a faster website with 10 minutes of work. I 'm not sure we need some kind of activism to stop amp i do believe it will crash on its own as soon as most sites look exactly alike and start losing revenues. But until then ... maybe ban AMP links?
      - themacguffinman 7y ago
        If it's so easy then why have so few websites done it? Google has understood what Google/AMP haters refuse to see: web performance is not an engineering problem, it's a product and marketing problem. Coercion is exactly what's needed to push website owners to prioritize performance, because HN's monthly whinefest isn't cutting it. Here's two basic things AMP offers that stripped-down HTML can't do: a world-class CDN that many website owners won't justify investing in, and a clear, marketable incentive to develop a mobile-efficient website that VPs, marketers, product managers, and other business stakeholders can immediately understand.
        buboard 7y ago
        > why have so few websites done it? Because the vast majority of websites are reasonably fast on mobile? Loading times of 1,2 or 5 seconds are a non-problem that amp is addressing. The worst offenders i see are too high res images and autoplay videos, but frankly i cant remember seeing any of those recently. Most blogs/news sites are fine. Where is google sourcing their data that users are desperate for web-breaking solutions that bring them 200msec response times? The purpose of AMP is so that people flick a website instantly and then go back to google. That's obviously not in the interest of the publishers. The whinefest is because google is actively prioritizing amp publishers thus forcing it on the web. > Coercion is exactly what's needed to push this is not a defensible statement > a world-class CDN that many website owners facebook needs a world-class cdn, not blogs. > a clear, marketable incentive to develop a mobile-efficient websit the "marketable incentive" is the de-ranking of the site. It's entirely unnecessary to force amp for that, a simple page speed deranking would do

johnward 7y ago

It's funny. Google is thinking of marking slow loading sites. I analyze my sites with their own page speed tool the biggest blocker is Google/DoubleClick ads. I'm probably going to completely remove AdSense (auto ads are terrible) but can't they optimize their own code?

izacus 7y ago

Yes, of course you didn't have an issue with a new Apple device, that's exactly my point. Did you try browsing the non-AMP web on something like Nexus 4? Motorola Moto E? Oppo and Xiaomi lowend units from 2015?

johnward 7y ago
I don't recall ever noting any issues with my Nexus 4. In my opinion, this is a better options: https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/11/google-chrome-to-identify-and-label-slow-websites/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/11/11/google-chrome-to-identify-...
buboard 7y ago
there are so many better ways that google could solve this issue other than amp (derank sites for slow devices / mark them as slow / pass a parameter for slow-phone visitors / create a chrome version for slow devices). AMP is a dictatorial attempt to keep websites forever bound and limited to what google is offering.
- izacus 7y ago
  Yes, Google did whatever maximally benefits Google. They're a corporation and behave as such. Just like Apple won't de-DRM their cable protocols just because it's "right". The question is - what can the web community do to make AMP redundant outside of complaint posts.
  - buboard 7y ago
    > to make AMP redundant outside First, AMP is already redundant. it doesnt offer anything that stripped-down html can't do. The primary reason sites choose it is because google ranks the pages higher! it's purely coercive. Second , it's not as if AMP has taken over the web. But this coercion has to stop. Third, it's real easy to make a faster website with 10 minutes of work. I 'm not sure we need some kind of activism to stop amp i do believe it will crash on its own as soon as most sites look exactly alike and start losing revenues. But until then ... maybe ban AMP links?
    - themacguffinman 7y ago
      If it's so easy then why have so few websites done it? Google has understood what Google/AMP haters refuse to see: web performance is not an engineering problem, it's a product and marketing problem. Coercion is exactly what's needed to push website owners to prioritize performance, because HN's monthly whinefest isn't cutting it. Here's two basic things AMP offers that stripped-down HTML can't do: a world-class CDN that many website owners won't justify investing in, and a clear, marketable incentive to develop a mobile-efficient website that VPs, marketers, product managers, and other business stakeholders can immediately understand.
      - buboard 7y ago
        > why have so few websites done it? Because the vast majority of websites are reasonably fast on mobile? Loading times of 1,2 or 5 seconds are a non-problem that amp is addressing. The worst offenders i see are too high res images and autoplay videos, but frankly i cant remember seeing any of those recently. Most blogs/news sites are fine. Where is google sourcing their data that users are desperate for web-breaking solutions that bring them 200msec response times? The purpose of AMP is so that people flick a website instantly and then go back to google. That's obviously not in the interest of the publishers. The whinefest is because google is actively prioritizing amp publishers thus forcing it on the web. > Coercion is exactly what's needed to push this is not a defensible statement > a world-class CDN that many website owners facebook needs a world-class cdn, not blogs. > a clear, marketable incentive to develop a mobile-efficient websit the "marketable incentive" is the de-ranking of the site. It's entirely unnecessary to force amp for that, a simple page speed deranking would do