7 ms·

Because being anti-ICE is the current "woke" Silicon Valley hive mind stance to have.

by LiNeXT 7y ago

cyphar 7y ago
It's probably more because of the concentration camps.
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  What concentration camps?
  - cyphar 7y ago
    https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentration-camps-southern-border-migrant-detention-facilities-trump/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentratio...
    - LiNeXT 7y ago
      Nice try. Concentration camp is an extremely loaded term and using it in this context serves absolutely no productive purpose.
      - iron0013 7y ago
        It's an extremely accurate term, and using it in this context serves the purpose of not minimizing the importance of their being the sites of atrocities and internationally-decried human rights violations.
      - cryoshon 7y ago
        actually, it serves the purpose of riling people to action perfectly because it captures the scale and nature of the detainment centers at a time when information coming out of those centers is extremely limited and the state of a hearty share of the public rhetoric is that the people contained within the camps are subhuman. the camps serve no productive purpose, yet here we are with a bunch of them in the country anyway.
        remarkEon 7y ago
        >no productive purpose If these people attempting to enter were simply turned around and immediately deported, the same people claiming that these are “actual in real life holocaust-2.0-about-to-happen concentration camps” would be upset about the “barbarism” of this stance instead of holding them while they wait for hearings.
thebokehwokeh2 7y ago
Seeing that you use "woke" as a slur, I take it you are pro-ICE?
- LiNeXT 7y ago
  Yes. Immigration enforcement is a legitimate government function.
  - cyphar 7y ago
    But imprisoning people for extended periods of time in unsanitary conditions, without a fair trial[1] and entrapping legally-resident students into violating their visa conditions by setting up a fake university[2] is not a legitimate nor ethical method of immigration enforcement. Being against ICE and their actions is not the same as being against the concept of immigration enforcement. [1]: The tribunal hearings are effectively a kangaroo court -- there are cases of pre-teen children being asked to make a legal defense without an attorney or their parents. [2]: https://eu.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/11/27/ice-arrested-250-foreign-students-fake-university-metro-detroit/4277686002/ https://eu.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/11/27/ic...
    - BeetleB 7y ago
      Entrapment is usually a horrible thing to do, but it is unfortunately standard practice with local police as well as the FBI. Would you agree that those agencies should not have technical services provided to them?
      - iron0013 7y ago
        If they are operating illegally (as entrapment is illegal), then the answer is obviously yes!
        BeetleB 7y ago
        Entrapment as defined by the law is illegal. However, what a lot of these agencies do is not strictly entrapment as defined by the law, and as such is very legal (unfortunately). I'm betting the majority of terrorism cases in the US since 9/11 involved what looks like entrapment, and I believe pretty much all of them have held up in court. So my question remains. When all of these agencies are practising legal entrapment, would you agree never to provide services to them?
adamch 7y ago
Alternatively, because the border concentration camps run by ICE are far too similar to other concentration camps throughout history. People only have 8 working hours each day, and I certainly wouldn't want my limited working hours to contribute to the efficient management of concentration camps.
- throwaway894345 7y ago
  I don't think using a loaded word like "concentration camps" is going to improve the quality or clarity of discussion in this thread. Perhaps use a different term (e.g., "holding facility") or clarify that you mean "concentration camp" in some strictly technical sense that doesn't meaningfully resemble the usual imagery associated with the term.
  - claudiawerner 7y ago
    More than 400 Holocaust and genocide experts have asked the US Holocaust Memorial Museum to reverse its stance that comparisons of ICE "concentration camps" to those of the Holocaust are unwarranted[0]. [0] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/07/01/an-open-letter-to-the-director-of-the-holocaust-memorial-museum/?fbclid=IwAR1stJ7uBkl2QeYH-lDgKaHeAlajBOQfae9YWAKxrOAvXSj5B_Ra2AMtN-k https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/07/01/an-open-letter-to-t...
    - LiNeXT 7y ago
      This letter does not appear, at all, to endorse the silly use of the term "concentration camp" in reference to U.S. immigration detention facilities. Rather, they seem to have taken issue with one particular broadly written sentence fragment in the museum's statement: “...unequivocally rejecting efforts to create analogies between the Holocaust and other events, whether historical or contemporary...”
      - claudiawerner 7y ago
        The letter was written in the context of AOC using the term "concentration camps"; this is what caused the Museum to release the statement in the first place[0][1][2]. [0] https://nypost.com/2019/06/24/us-holocaust-museum-denounces-aocs-concentration-camp-remarks/ https://nypost.com/2019/06/24/us-holocaust-museum-denounces-... [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-holocaust-museum-rejects-nazi-concentration-camp-analogies/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-holocaust-museum-rejects-na... [2] https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/us-holocaust-museum-reiterates-its-rejection-of-analogies-with-the-holocaust https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/us-holocaust-museum-reiterat...
golf3 7y ago
The opinions of Californians are not to be taken seriously.

Because being anti-ICE is the current "woke" Silicon Valley hive mind stance to have.

by LiNeXT 7y ago

Because being anti-ICE is the current "woke" Silicon Valley hive mind stance to have.

cyphar 7y ago

It's probably more because of the concentration camps.

LiNeXT 7y ago
What concentration camps?
- cyphar 7y ago
  https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentration-camps-southern-border-migrant-detention-facilities-trump/ https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a27813648/concentratio...
  - LiNeXT 7y ago
    Nice try. Concentration camp is an extremely loaded term and using it in this context serves absolutely no productive purpose.
    - iron0013 7y ago
      It's an extremely accurate term, and using it in this context serves the purpose of not minimizing the importance of their being the sites of atrocities and internationally-decried human rights violations.
    - cryoshon 7y ago
      actually, it serves the purpose of riling people to action perfectly because it captures the scale and nature of the detainment centers at a time when information coming out of those centers is extremely limited and the state of a hearty share of the public rhetoric is that the people contained within the camps are subhuman. the camps serve no productive purpose, yet here we are with a bunch of them in the country anyway.
      - remarkEon 7y ago
        >no productive purpose If these people attempting to enter were simply turned around and immediately deported, the same people claiming that these are “actual in real life holocaust-2.0-about-to-happen concentration camps” would be upset about the “barbarism” of this stance instead of holding them while they wait for hearings.

thebokehwokeh2 7y ago

Seeing that you use "woke" as a slur, I take it you are pro-ICE?

LiNeXT 7y ago
Yes. Immigration enforcement is a legitimate government function.
- cyphar 7y ago
  But imprisoning people for extended periods of time in unsanitary conditions, without a fair trial[1] and entrapping legally-resident students into violating their visa conditions by setting up a fake university[2] is not a legitimate nor ethical method of immigration enforcement. Being against ICE and their actions is not the same as being against the concept of immigration enforcement. [1]: The tribunal hearings are effectively a kangaroo court -- there are cases of pre-teen children being asked to make a legal defense without an attorney or their parents. [2]: https://eu.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/11/27/ice-arrested-250-foreign-students-fake-university-metro-detroit/4277686002/ https://eu.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2019/11/27/ic...
  - BeetleB 7y ago
    Entrapment is usually a horrible thing to do, but it is unfortunately standard practice with local police as well as the FBI. Would you agree that those agencies should not have technical services provided to them?
    - iron0013 7y ago
      If they are operating illegally (as entrapment is illegal), then the answer is obviously yes!
      - BeetleB 7y ago
        Entrapment as defined by the law is illegal. However, what a lot of these agencies do is not strictly entrapment as defined by the law, and as such is very legal (unfortunately). I'm betting the majority of terrorism cases in the US since 9/11 involved what looks like entrapment, and I believe pretty much all of them have held up in court. So my question remains. When all of these agencies are practising legal entrapment, would you agree never to provide services to them?

adamch 7y ago

Alternatively, because the border concentration camps run by ICE are far too similar to other concentration camps throughout history. People only have 8 working hours each day, and I certainly wouldn't want my limited working hours to contribute to the efficient management of concentration camps.

throwaway894345 7y ago
I don't think using a loaded word like "concentration camps" is going to improve the quality or clarity of discussion in this thread. Perhaps use a different term (e.g., "holding facility") or clarify that you mean "concentration camp" in some strictly technical sense that doesn't meaningfully resemble the usual imagery associated with the term.
- claudiawerner 7y ago
  More than 400 Holocaust and genocide experts have asked the US Holocaust Memorial Museum to reverse its stance that comparisons of ICE "concentration camps" to those of the Holocaust are unwarranted[0]. [0] https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/07/01/an-open-letter-to-the-director-of-the-holocaust-memorial-museum/?fbclid=IwAR1stJ7uBkl2QeYH-lDgKaHeAlajBOQfae9YWAKxrOAvXSj5B_Ra2AMtN-k https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2019/07/01/an-open-letter-to-t...
  - LiNeXT 7y ago
    This letter does not appear, at all, to endorse the silly use of the term "concentration camp" in reference to U.S. immigration detention facilities. Rather, they seem to have taken issue with one particular broadly written sentence fragment in the museum's statement: “...unequivocally rejecting efforts to create analogies between the Holocaust and other events, whether historical or contemporary...”
    - claudiawerner 7y ago
      The letter was written in the context of AOC using the term "concentration camps"; this is what caused the Museum to release the statement in the first place[0][1][2]. [0] https://nypost.com/2019/06/24/us-holocaust-museum-denounces-aocs-concentration-camp-remarks/ https://nypost.com/2019/06/24/us-holocaust-museum-denounces-... [1] https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-holocaust-museum-rejects-nazi-concentration-camp-analogies/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-holocaust-museum-rejects-na... [2] https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/us-holocaust-museum-reiterates-its-rejection-of-analogies-with-the-holocaust https://www.jta.org/quick-reads/us-holocaust-museum-reiterat...

golf3 7y ago

The opinions of Californians are not to be taken seriously.