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"I think this power of defining truth is one of the major battlefields of the 21st century." - That's a really interesting idea. Isn't truth truth by its defin

"I think this power of defining truth is one of the major battlefields of the 21st century." - That's a really interesting idea. Isn't truth truth by its definition?

Spellman 7y ago
Well, depends on how you define "truth." For example, here's an easy one, pi=3.14159 (if rounded to 5 decimal places). Great! I think we all agree this is true. The trouble is without context, this is trivia. Here is a harder one as we move up the complexity scale. Is Human-driven climate change both 1) real and 2) something we can reasonably combat? Well, the scientists who study it seem to think it's real and there are ways humankind can reasonably push back against it. But there are many, many who believe differently. Which stance is "true"? Even harder. Is there a God? I mean, from a philosophical view. Sure by scientific definitions we have to assume there is no measurable supernatural. But does that preclude it's existence? For a significant number of people, G-d of some sort exists. And which is the "truth"???? I'm not soliciting hard answers, just trying to show that as you move to more complex, and in many respects more important, topics of today the notion that there is one singular truth in existence gets fuzzier.
- gefh 7y ago
  I mean, people have passed laws saying that pi=3 (and once even 4!) so I'm not even confident we can get that far.
  - ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
    Maths, as I understand it, is merely an a priori deduction from an initial set of assumed-true axioms. In some ways, you can do whatever the heck you like, as long as it's consistent with your axioms and whatever laws govern your deductive process.
- ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
  * nods frantically! * "Here is a harder one as we move up the complexity scale." What is the complexity scale? How do you measure how complex truth is? Can truth have properties other than rightness or wrongness? This, I think, is where the concept of fuzzy truth could be invoked. What that is I have no idea, I just made it up!
kazagistar 7y ago
The only truth about the world is the world itself. Beyond that, truth is a story which omits and simplifies most while emphasizing some things specificially. Depending on what you omit and what you emphasize you can tell very different stories with "truth".
- ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
  very interesting. Is this your opinion?
zentiggr 7y ago
The problem becomes how deeply one needs to research before credible facts can be distinguished from agit-prop / disinformation. I can't think of many people I know who have the time to become investigative journalists, in effect. And I know that a lot of things I think I know are probably propaganda or spin or just one sided stories. Big problem indeed.
- ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
  very big problem. I think you are wise to recognise this, 'And I know that a lot of things I think I know are probably propaganda or spin or just one sided stories.' How can we flush this from our minds? How do we trust those that purport to speak the truth?

"I think this power of defining truth is one of the major battlefields of the 21st century." - That's a really interesting idea. Isn't truth truth by its definition?

Spellman 7y ago

Well, depends on how you define "truth." For example, here's an easy one, pi=3.14159 (if rounded to 5 decimal places). Great! I think we all agree this is true. The trouble is without context, this is trivia. Here is a harder one as we move up the complexity scale. Is Human-driven climate change both 1) real and 2) something we can reasonably combat? Well, the scientists who study it seem to think it's real and there are ways humankind can reasonably push back against it. But there are many, many who believe differently. Which stance is "true"? Even harder. Is there a God? I mean, from a philosophical view. Sure by scientific definitions we have to assume there is no measurable supernatural. But does that preclude it's existence? For a significant number of people, G-d of some sort exists. And which is the "truth"???? I'm not soliciting hard answers, just trying to show that as you move to more complex, and in many respects more important, topics of today the notion that there is one singular truth in existence gets fuzzier.

gefh 7y ago
I mean, people have passed laws saying that pi=3 (and once even 4!) so I'm not even confident we can get that far.
- ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
  Maths, as I understand it, is merely an a priori deduction from an initial set of assumed-true axioms. In some ways, you can do whatever the heck you like, as long as it's consistent with your axioms and whatever laws govern your deductive process.
ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
* nods frantically! * "Here is a harder one as we move up the complexity scale." What is the complexity scale? How do you measure how complex truth is? Can truth have properties other than rightness or wrongness? This, I think, is where the concept of fuzzy truth could be invoked. What that is I have no idea, I just made it up!

kazagistar 7y ago

The only truth about the world is the world itself. Beyond that, truth is a story which omits and simplifies most while emphasizing some things specificially. Depending on what you omit and what you emphasize you can tell very different stories with "truth".

ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
very interesting. Is this your opinion?

zentiggr 7y ago

The problem becomes how deeply one needs to research before credible facts can be distinguished from agit-prop / disinformation. I can't think of many people I know who have the time to become investigative journalists, in effect. And I know that a lot of things I think I know are probably propaganda or spin or just one sided stories. Big problem indeed.

ASlave2Gravity 7y ago
very big problem. I think you are wise to recognise this, 'And I know that a lot of things I think I know are probably propaganda or spin or just one sided stories.' How can we flush this from our minds? How do we trust those that purport to speak the truth?