5 ms·

Genius used watermarks to catch Google stealing its content

80 points by polytely 7y ago

zozbot234 7y ago
The Twitter thread states that Google has blamed unspecified "data partners" for stealing the content. This is about the "knowledge-graph"-powered infoboxes that sometimes appear on a SERP page. But which "data partner" would be providing Google with lyrics data, and why didn't Google ban them from the platform after they were caught stealing 3rd-party content previously? (Wikidata is one example of a well-known source for Google's KG, but obviously they don't provide any copywritten lyrics. There was a fun instance though where Google would say someone who lived in Ancient Rome is still alive and thousands-of-years old, because Wikidata had no indication that they were dead. It was fixed there by putting in an "unknown value" death date.)
- polytely 7y ago
  Yeah I really wish I had more insight into how this actually works, how many people in google work on these info-boxes, where do they get their data from (plundering existing sites it seems). It's weird to me that google is so cheap. If they want the data so bad why don't they buy Genius or setup an equivalent, or train some AI to extract song lyrics from songs. The amount of brainpower working at google is huge but the output is often quite disappointing, I guess the scale at which they operate is impressive but the results not so much.
- smitop 7y ago
  On most lyric search results, Google cites LyricFind as the source: https://www.lyricfind.com https://www.lyricfind.com
theflyinghorse 7y ago
Unbelievable! I've always held Google in high regard but this is beyond slimy.
- NullPrefix 7y ago
  Can't tell if sarcasm or not.
rfwhyte 7y ago
I find it a bit disingenuous to call song lyrics Genius' "content." If anything the content here belongs to the artists who actually wrote these songs, not some website that puts a text version of songs other people wrote on the internet. Also likely indefensible from any kind of legal standpoint as Genius' can't possibly claim any kind of copyright on song lyrics unless they've licensed these lyrics from their original authors.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  The following tweets do say Genius does have a licensing deal with the publishers.
- zozbot234 7y ago
  It's not their content, but it's still content that they helped curate - these lyrics have to be transcribed from the audio, and Genius helps manage that work. They can definitely claim unfair competition.
dang 7y ago
Discussed five months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20194952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20194952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20201139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20201139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20204625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20204625

80 points by polytely 7y ago

The Twitter thread states that Google has blamed unspecified "data partners" for stealing the content. This is about the "knowledge-graph"-powered infoboxes that sometimes appear on a SERP page. But which "data partner" would be providing Google with lyrics data, and why didn't Google ban them from the platform after they were caught stealing 3rd-party content previously? (Wikidata is one example of a well-known source for Google's KG, but obviously they don't provide any copywritten lyrics. There was a fun instance though where Google would say someone who lived in Ancient Rome is still alive and thousands-of-years old, because Wikidata had no indication that they were dead. It was fixed there by putting in an "unknown value" death date.)

polytely 7y ago
Yeah I really wish I had more insight into how this actually works, how many people in google work on these info-boxes, where do they get their data from (plundering existing sites it seems). It's weird to me that google is so cheap. If they want the data so bad why don't they buy Genius or setup an equivalent, or train some AI to extract song lyrics from songs. The amount of brainpower working at google is huge but the output is often quite disappointing, I guess the scale at which they operate is impressive but the results not so much.
smitop 7y ago
On most lyric search results, Google cites LyricFind as the source: https://www.lyricfind.com https://www.lyricfind.com

theflyinghorse 7y ago

Unbelievable! I've always held Google in high regard but this is beyond slimy.

NullPrefix 7y ago
Can't tell if sarcasm or not.

rfwhyte 7y ago

I find it a bit disingenuous to call song lyrics Genius' "content." If anything the content here belongs to the artists who actually wrote these songs, not some website that puts a text version of songs other people wrote on the internet. Also likely indefensible from any kind of legal standpoint as Genius' can't possibly claim any kind of copyright on song lyrics unless they've licensed these lyrics from their original authors.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago
The following tweets do say Genius does have a licensing deal with the publishers.
zozbot234 7y ago
It's not their content, but it's still content that they helped curate - these lyrics have to be transcribed from the audio, and Genius helps manage that work. They can definitely claim unfair competition.

dang 7y ago

Discussed five months ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20194952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20194952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20201139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20201139 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20204625 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20204625