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As a former Googler who stays in touch, there doesn't seem to be structural discontent emerging in staff. There were a few news stories about people complaining

by lacker 7y ago

As a former Googler who stays in touch, there doesn't seem to be structural discontent emerging in staff. There were a few news stories about people complaining, but Google employs about 100,000 people, so any news story involving less than 1000 of them being unhappy can't really count as "structural discontent".

notJim 7y ago
Okay, what about 20,000 of them? https://www.vox.com/2019/4/23/18512542/google-employee-walkout-organizers-claim-retaliation https://www.vox.com/2019/4/23/18512542/google-employee-walko...
- lacker 7y ago
  The walkout referred to was over a year ago, so I wouldn't call that discontent "emerging". If anything, that demonstrates that discontent is diminishing, because there hasn't been another similar walkout.
  - sildur 7y ago
    Yeah, in the same vein the discontent in Venezuela must be diminishing, as there is been quite some time from the last big demonstrations.
  - ericol 7y ago
    I think they made every effort possible to cut this at the root, and even retaliate. the fact that 4 out of 7 of the organizers of the walkout left the company[1], some with more than 10 years working for Google, is rather telling. I don't think your comment holds water. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/most-google-walkout-organizers-left-company/ https://www.wired.com/story/most-google-walkout-organizers-l...
    - big_chungus 7y ago
      I don't get the constant critiques of this. They fired employees who encouraged others to leave their jobs. That's not really "retaliation", is it? Were a competitor to do that, Google would have a case for tortious interference. Why is it any different when it's "organizing"? It's not like this was a unionization attempt, which might have some legal protection.
      - claudeganon 7y ago
        Actually, organizing around workplace conditions (in this case, alleged sexual violence by Google executives) is a protected action under US labor law. So, yes, it would be retaliation and no, they’re not allowed to do that.
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    You posted that someone needed to demonstrate "structural discontent" via a news story involving at least 1K employees. They linked to one involving 20K. And your response to that is: "This proves that discontent is diminishing?" You set the challenge, they exceeded it 20x, and you've not made a believable case that this shows "content is diminishing." In fact exceeding your original demands by 20x seems to thoroughly show that the basis for the claim is true.
    - p1esk 7y ago
      For anyone pointing to "structural discontent" at Google, you guys seem to be very out of touch with reality. Compared to 99% of other large corporations (in US, or worldwide), Google is heaven on Earth as a place to work at. $200k entry level comp, lots of perks, very smart people all around you, open culture, coolest stuff to work on, cutting edge tech stack and great tools, future technologies being invented right next to you (or by you!), etc, etc. There are problems, or course, because you're bound to have problems in any 100k organization, but at other places it's so much worse. Try working at any company on Fortune 500 list, other than FAANG, or at any government agency, and see how much tolerance for "discontent" is there. The amount of BS per $ you will have to endure there is simply incomparable. Or maybe you want to hold Google to higher standards just because it's Google? Why exactly?
      - Someone1234 7y ago
        This has nothing to do with the post you replied to. Plus this retort essentially boils down to "Google pays well and other companies are even worse so quit complaining!" Restating the compensation argument multiple different ways, and the cutting edge argument multiple times doesn't really address the actual underlying complaints being made (Google's partnership with distasteful foreign governments and other corporate immoralities). If you want to talk corporate morals, sure, relevant. If you just want to brag that Google pays super well and is less evil than [more evil companies] this seems like a whole other discussion that sidesteps the issues. Which isn't to say it is untrue, just irrelevant.
        7y ago
- quotemstr 7y ago
  The walkout was a bait and switch. It was organized (using underhanded means --- for example, a rogue employee force pushing a desktop background update to everyone without authorization) on the basis of protesting Google's payout to Andy Rubin. Fine. But at the same time, a small number of employees put together a document (without public input) making "walkout demands" and ever since, this small but very vocal group of employees has been going around claiming that 20,000 people support the list of demands in this doc. Not the case. Total lies, in fact.
- gundmc 7y ago
  Sundar sent an email encouraging employees to take part in this demonstration [1]. [1] - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/google-ceo-sundar-pichai-supports-employee-walk-out-in-memo.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/google-ceo-sundar-pichai-sup...
entangledqubit 7y ago
Hey Lacker. I'd be curious about whether there is a bias around the seniority level/situation in the pool of people you keep in touch with. People I've talked to, ranging from new hires to old timers, have generally trended toward being more discontent and cynical about the company as a whole.

by lacker 7y ago

notJim 7y ago

Okay, what about 20,000 of them? https://www.vox.com/2019/4/23/18512542/google-employee-walkout-organizers-claim-retaliation https://www.vox.com/2019/4/23/18512542/google-employee-walko...

lacker 7y ago
The walkout referred to was over a year ago, so I wouldn't call that discontent "emerging". If anything, that demonstrates that discontent is diminishing, because there hasn't been another similar walkout.
- sildur 7y ago
  Yeah, in the same vein the discontent in Venezuela must be diminishing, as there is been quite some time from the last big demonstrations.
- ericol 7y ago
  I think they made every effort possible to cut this at the root, and even retaliate. the fact that 4 out of 7 of the organizers of the walkout left the company[1], some with more than 10 years working for Google, is rather telling. I don't think your comment holds water. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/most-google-walkout-organizers-left-company/ https://www.wired.com/story/most-google-walkout-organizers-l...
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    I don't get the constant critiques of this. They fired employees who encouraged others to leave their jobs. That's not really "retaliation", is it? Were a competitor to do that, Google would have a case for tortious interference. Why is it any different when it's "organizing"? It's not like this was a unionization attempt, which might have some legal protection.
    - claudeganon 7y ago
      Actually, organizing around workplace conditions (in this case, alleged sexual violence by Google executives) is a protected action under US labor law. So, yes, it would be retaliation and no, they’re not allowed to do that.
- Someone1234 7y ago
  You posted that someone needed to demonstrate "structural discontent" via a news story involving at least 1K employees. They linked to one involving 20K. And your response to that is: "This proves that discontent is diminishing?" You set the challenge, they exceeded it 20x, and you've not made a believable case that this shows "content is diminishing." In fact exceeding your original demands by 20x seems to thoroughly show that the basis for the claim is true.
  - p1esk 7y ago
    For anyone pointing to "structural discontent" at Google, you guys seem to be very out of touch with reality. Compared to 99% of other large corporations (in US, or worldwide), Google is heaven on Earth as a place to work at. $200k entry level comp, lots of perks, very smart people all around you, open culture, coolest stuff to work on, cutting edge tech stack and great tools, future technologies being invented right next to you (or by you!), etc, etc. There are problems, or course, because you're bound to have problems in any 100k organization, but at other places it's so much worse. Try working at any company on Fortune 500 list, other than FAANG, or at any government agency, and see how much tolerance for "discontent" is there. The amount of BS per $ you will have to endure there is simply incomparable. Or maybe you want to hold Google to higher standards just because it's Google? Why exactly?
    - Someone1234 7y ago
      This has nothing to do with the post you replied to. Plus this retort essentially boils down to "Google pays well and other companies are even worse so quit complaining!" Restating the compensation argument multiple different ways, and the cutting edge argument multiple times doesn't really address the actual underlying complaints being made (Google's partnership with distasteful foreign governments and other corporate immoralities). If you want to talk corporate morals, sure, relevant. If you just want to brag that Google pays super well and is less evil than [more evil companies] this seems like a whole other discussion that sidesteps the issues. Which isn't to say it is untrue, just irrelevant.
      - 7y ago
quotemstr 7y ago
The walkout was a bait and switch. It was organized (using underhanded means --- for example, a rogue employee force pushing a desktop background update to everyone without authorization) on the basis of protesting Google's payout to Andy Rubin. Fine. But at the same time, a small number of employees put together a document (without public input) making "walkout demands" and ever since, this small but very vocal group of employees has been going around claiming that 20,000 people support the list of demands in this doc. Not the case. Total lies, in fact.
gundmc 7y ago
Sundar sent an email encouraging employees to take part in this demonstration [1]. [1] - https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/google-ceo-sundar-pichai-supports-employee-walk-out-in-memo.html https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/30/google-ceo-sundar-pichai-sup...

entangledqubit 7y ago

Hey Lacker. I'd be curious about whether there is a bias around the seniority level/situation in the pool of people you keep in touch with. People I've talked to, ranging from new hires to old timers, have generally trended toward being more discontent and cynical about the company as a whole.